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Eirik Solum Profile
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Purple fan

Registered: 09-2004
Posts: 2477
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Re: "Backyard" recording


quote:

KillerBananas wrote:

quote:

Ormandy wrote:

Read what this reviewer thought of Michael Bradford's production...

http://www.popmatters.com/music/reviews/d/deeppurple-rapture.shtml




And I agree with the reviewer very strongly about the production, but that's no surprise is it....GM? emoticon



Yes, what he says about the lack of "punch" in the rythm section is spot on. It was the same with Bananas. But on this one it also sounds cheap, distorted and like the mixing was done in no time. As the reviwer says:

"If there's one big problem with the album, it's in Michael Bradford's production, which has the notoriously formidable rhythm section of Glover and Paice sounding surprisingly limp. We all know how muscular the duo can sound, but here, the recording lacks punch. The beats by the venerable Paice especially sound too soft, the garage rock production not doing the man justice whatsoever. "



Last edited by Eirik Solum, 3/1/2006, 23:30
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ByTor Profile
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Purple fan

Registered: 01-2004
Posts: 361
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Re: "Backyard" recording


quote:

Gillans micstand wrote:

I said the mastering job is excellent,after the mix,because thats the order of things,had he done a fulltime job during the mix,would we have a good master?
Yes...prehaps so,but mixing and mastering are two seperate functions,as you know,one follows the other.

And when you master the sound,you're mastering your mix at that point.
I say it's the same as the reviewer mentioned in the link that was posted by Ormandy.
You can't cause drop offs by mastering,the drop off happened during the mix,and notice how the reviewer mentioned it sounds "pedestrian" and see that he's speaking of the mix in particular.
A quality mastering job,will still show mixing flaws.
So perhaps it's a little of both?(not sure)
(backyard recording)

When you matser the recording,it's whats mixed by you,that will be effected,not the performance,and you will still hear if something was not done,that should've been.

They must not have been trying to get a big sound or something,but notice how alot of Gillans tone and harmonies,match that of Machine Head,or resemble certain qualities.
It's important to have direction,and it seems this is a struggling point.
You have to get over the "what do we want to do" factor,and just do it...sometimes.

If it's of no consequence to you,and all involved,then it will proceed to the manufacturing stage,before it should.
I think time was not taken during the mix,he may have felt it would be too polished,had he worked any longer,as this seems to be his mindset with MKMorse Purple,he feels that it doesn't need to be over done,but thats the way they always worked...till they got it right in their minds....having someone else make those decisions,is not a personally good idea it's seeming to be now.

I like the "sound" of the recording,however,I don't like the way it disfuntions depending on the equipment it's played through,and it's of no faulty equipment that it does this.
There are compaibility issues,and as I mentioned somehwere before,there is a drop off in the togetherness of the recording,it losses itslef by the time you get to "CQA" and begins to have a fakeness to it,as if he got lazy,and decided not to do a fulltime mixing of the keyboard work,leaving the textures to leave it sounding thin,by not blending it with the rhythm section...and it's crystal clear to me,when hearing through high end equipment.

I didn't pay three dollars below the suggested retail price,so I don't appreciate paying a full dollar,and only getting 3 quarters turnaround on it.
I blame production value,not band writing and performance skills.

It's fine work by Purple standards as far as the band and the material they wrote and played,but the product suffers from haste.

If Bradford did the best he can do,then I don't welcome him any longer.
It's too slick for me...here is a guy that has a chance to help re invent them,and he's not doing all that well at his opportunity to make a difference for the better.

Maybe the band just doesn't want to work at it,and are happy just repeating theirselves on a less quality level than they have up to this point.
Steam isn't everlasting.


-------------------------------------------

Interesting comments, I agree with some, and I enjoy hearing, and respect, peoples thoughts on audio related matters when they are presented in an honest manner, with respect for the people reading them. I suspect there are problems with BOTH the mixing and mastering, but nothings perfect I suppose. Bad recordings happen from time to time. The latest studio album from Rush, “Vapor Trails” is another fairly recent album with poor sound IMHO.

 Whenever someone takes a rather complicated and subjective subject like we’ve been discussing in this thread, and starts making ridiculous one sentence blanket statements, like some you’ve made in this thread, and tries to pass them off as fact rather than opinion or theory, it makes me wonder why? You seem like a good guy, but man look at some of these comments you’ve made and ask yourself what people must be thinking when they read them.

 Here are some examples:


quote:

Gillans micstand wrote:

Good sound is not a matter of opinion,period.emoticon



Making the statement good sound is “not a matter of opinion” is truly ludicrous, tell me it’s your humble opinion and I would have politely disagreed and moved on.

The ENTIRE recording process ultimately comes down to peoples OPINIONS that they have formed through years of experience. The musician may pick a certain instrument because, in his opinion, it sounds best for the piece they are working on. The engineer may pick a certain microphone or EQ setting because in his opinion, based on his experience, that’s what will work best in that particular time. When the engineer mixes the album, it comes down to him listening through a pair of monitors and making mixing choices, based on his experience, and his OPINION. The mastering engineer, who has complete control over the levels and EQ (amongst other things) has to make choices, based on his experience, and opinion. Even the guy at home listening to the recording will pick playback equipment that in his opinion best meet his needs. There are many ways to skin the cat.





quote:

Gillans micstand wrote:

The mastering job is excellent on ROTD,the problem occured during the mixing stage,period.



As I pointed out earlier you’ve NEVER HEARD the unmastered mix, simple as that. All the typing in the world wont change this fact, so this is at best your theory or opinion, which your entitled to, why go the route of wording it like anything more than that?

One of the main responsibilities of a mastering engineer is to prepare the recording for production. He has final control over volume levels, EQ, etc. If there is a drop out (I honestly don’t hear or see a drop out, but that’s just my opinion), particularly one obvious enough that it would cause some kind of compatibility problem with play back equipment, its his job to see it gets fixed, before the CD’s are made, yet you are saying the mastering is excellent. I honestly don’t hear or see what I would call a drop out, but that’s just my opinion. I do see a very distorted wav that’s occurred during mastering. Perhaps this might be contributing to your playback problem? Let me know if you want me to post a picture of it, it’s easy to do.
 

quote:

Gillans micstand wrote:

You can't cause drop offs by mastering,the drop off happened during the mix,



A sloppy mastering engineer or equipment malfunction could cause a drop off, it’s not impossible.

quote:

Gillans micstand wrote:

it's almost impossible to get a good recording,using all the wrong equipment,and if you don't use all of that you have to work with,it can show very easily.



LOL The only thing missing is your famous “period” at the end. How can you type something like this with out first thinking about how foolish you will look when somebody asks you how you could possibly know this? I hope this is a joke, but I didn’t see any smiles on it. emoticon

quote:

Gillans micstand wrote:

You are 100% wrong about this.....I've already commented that I listen to it with a sound professional in a home studio,and have been putting it through Pro Tools and Q-Base software.

It happened during the mixing process ByTor,period.



You brought up the use of Pro Tools and Q-Base, and I’ve asked you repeatedly what it is you learned by using them, that would make you say I’m “100% wrong” why don’t you tell us? I’m not trying to give you a hard time here, I’m truly curious. If I’m 100% wrong it won’t be the first time, I would at least like to get my score down to 50%.emoticon

quote:

Gillans micstand wrote:

The problem is the WAV....IF YOUR SLIDER WON'T MOVE,SOMETHING IS MISSING FROM THE MIX,SO IT'S EITHER A SOUND COMPONENT,OR SOME KIND OF SHOT CUT,FAKING THE COMPONENT



As I mentioned above, I can easily post a picture of wav graph showing a rather severely distorted wav, that has been caused by signal processing during mastering. The wav is completely clipped off at its peaks, and the top is missing. Perhaps this might cause the problem your having?

How does your player respond to some of your bootlegs? I would imagine some of those are fairly roughly mixed compared to ROTD. Do you have a lot of compatibility issues?


--
4/1/2006, 1:38 Link to this post  
 
Atle Profile
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Purple fan

Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 6050
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Re: "Backyard" recording


quote:

wrong man wrote:

very well said Atle

I totally agree with you on this.



Thanks, dude! emoticon

---
"...though the reason now is gone,
the battle rages on"
4/1/2006, 5:09 Link to this post Send Email to Atle   Send PM to Atle Blog
 
GuitarJack Profile
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Registered: 11-2005
Posts: 29
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Re: "Backyard" recording


Production problems aside it`s still a damn fine album.
4/1/2006, 6:45 Link to this post Send Email to GuitarJack   Send PM to GuitarJack
 
ByTor Profile
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Purple fan

Registered: 01-2004
Posts: 361
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Re: "Backyard" recording


quote:

GuitarJack wrote:

Production problems aside it`s still a damn fine album.



Yes it is. emoticon
4/1/2006, 14:16 Link to this post  
 
Fireball Profile
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Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 235
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Re: "Backyard" recording


In the end, from all this banter, I can only come up with one conclusion abot myself and that is I like faulty production sound better than perfection.

"..the lights go dim, tune guitars... never mind ... Close Enough for Rock 'n' Roll"
          
           - Nazareth
4/1/2006, 16:44 Link to this post Send Email to Fireball   Send PM to Fireball
 
Rezi Profile
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Registered: 04-2004
Posts: 16629
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Re: "Backyard" recording


quote:

Fireball wrote:

In the end, from all this banter, I can only come up with one conclusion abot myself and that is I like faulty production sound better than perfection.



Me too!



Last edited by Rezi, 4/1/2006, 17:04
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Ormandy Profile
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Registered: 12-2003
Posts: 1541
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Re: "Backyard" recording


As I wrote earlier, I was listening to ROTD at a Borders listening station. Sampled a few tracks to hear it through different headphones. Sounded powerful. Then I played the disc right next to ROTD, it was Journey's latest album "Generations". A very slick production with pop anthem type songs. Yuck! Within minutes of listening, I was so glad Bradford didn't go for that "polished" sound, especially for Deep Purple.

So much talk about the bad production, but comparing these two discs, I was so glad for the "rougher" approach. But that's just me. I love the sound of the new album, "21st century IN ROCK!"

Last edited by Ormandy, 4/1/2006, 18:15
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Gillans micstand Profile
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Banned user

Registered: 11-2003
Posts: 12425
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Re: "Backyard" recording


I just spent enough time breaking down ByTors post,only to get the post ousted somehow,due to running too many programs at once...and I'm too tired to do it over again,but I did manage to sort out his confusions of my expressions,and iron it out better,not to mention reasoning with his very concerned remarks...later I'll re write it,and I think he might get a better meaning from it,as I did get caught up a bit in that post,and was also picking up where I left off elsewhere on a few things,and I don't think he realized that.

[edit]
It now seems that the post was way too long,this is what happens when you break down someones post that way,I'll have to spell it out to him without using the quotes,which I'm not excited about.emoticon

Last edited by Gillans micstand, 4/1/2006, 18:48
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Ormandy Profile
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Purple fan

Registered: 12-2003
Posts: 1541
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Re: "Backyard" recording


Check out what this reviewer thought of Michael Bradford and Andy van Dette's job on the album...


http://www.rockreviews.info/reviewpage.php?ID=425
4/1/2006, 19:53 Link to this post Send Email to Ormandy   Send PM to Ormandy
 


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