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Gillans micstand Profile
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Banned user

Registered: 11-2003
Posts: 12425
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Re: Saxon DVD review


Can I say this?:
when talking about young musicians the way sandbagger1 has here,it just might offend young musicians and cause them to show their strength and pride to an endless degree,only helping to prove that their is a place for them in todays musical landscape,whether there is any market value
or record company interest.
They have their place and they should defend it at all cost. emoticon
7/3/2004, 1:08 Link to this post Send Email to Gillans micstand
 
Sandbagger1 Profile
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I can Handel it

Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 1015
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Re: Saxon DVD review


 - "But I did explain." -
quote:

RitchiesHair wrote:
And what explanation would this be?.


-That I'm not an expert, that was the explanation.

quote:

You say that it "stands to reason that today's rockers would come up short" or words to that effect but you're not telling me why, all you're doing is giving examples of newer music you don't like...in fact, a little later on in your post you basically say that you can't explain why but because they're writing music you don't like then they clearly aren't capable of it...how could you possibly know what musicians that you have never met and know nothing about can't write "intelligent prog or classically inspired rock if they practiced forever"?, do you have some magical mind-reading ability or something?.



Why is it so hard to grasp for you ? You need to look at the music they come up with and compare it to, say, Wakeman or whoever. -Surely you can tell the difference if you try, even you could. Don't give me all that "the record companies won't sign them but they're still out there somewhere", so where are they ? If they don't release any records they don't exist to the listnener, and I'd sure like to hear this amazing next generation of proggers and hard rockers we're supposed to have. By the time they get to release anything at all they'll have unlearned it.emoticon What I've heard so far hasn't impressed me vastly, so to you I'm not allowed to say it's not good ? To me it's not good, not just because I don't like it, but because I can hear their compositions and arrangements aren't much to write home about.

 - "You seem to think they're just as good." -

quote:

That has me slightly worried, I think I'm suffering from chronic amnesia because I'm supposed to have said all these things but I have absolutely no recollection of them...or did I just say them in your imagination?.


It's your opinion musicians today are just as good, isn't it ? That's what you've been saying througout your posts, loud and clear. And I assume you mean all genres not just prog.

quote:

I said that it's ludicrous to say that it's impossible for a band to write music of comparable quality to the music of the 70s just because of the time frame they exist, what is this mysterious thing that you're at a loss to explain that's happened that means they can't?



Extremely easy to answer: they aren't writing it ! If they can they should, but they aren't. We don't hear it, do we.
 
 - "I wish I could, but something clearly went wrong because they're writing inferior music, IMO." -

quote:

Well you're not hearing anything you like so they obviously can't write good music...until you come up with a plausible explanation for why they can't then my curiousity remains aroused....


Right. I don't like it because I know people used to be able to write intelligent rock music. I don't know why they can't now. Do you ? Nobody knows. They must've unlearned it then, seeing at 38 I'm suitabtly unimpressed. It's still the old rock masters who got the magic "it", when they're gone I'm afraid that's it. Sure we'll have rockers but it'll be la-la-ga-ga like it is now. emoticon
  
quote:

I don't think it really needs evidence to say that people are capable of making good music, mankind has been making music for almost as long as there's been Homo Sapiens and some of it has been good whilst some has been bad....what does need evidence though is your claim that bands today "couldn't write intelligent prog or classically inspired rock if they practiced together", as if some secret knowledge has been lost.


This has been answered quite a few times by now.

quote:

I will give you an example then, Mostly Autumn, I saw someone in a MA shirt at the Steve Howe concert on wednesday and I saw two at Blackmore's Night in Reading last November and I met another that I know is a fan, all in their late 30s-mid 40s, and if Yes and Blackmore fans of that vintage like them then there must be something.


What choice do they have ? When the generation of the Blackmores and Iron Maidens stop playing music there won't be much of interest left, they're the last - next up we have the imitators. The Marilyn Mansons, etc...

quote:

Well Ritchie has never spoken too well of his abilities as a cellist and he admits to having poor technical memory and not being able to read music very well and those are the kind of things that are quite important to orchestral musicians.


So what you're saying is RB would fail at an audition for not being good enough ?

 - "We're on a forum dealing with a hard rock band. emoticon" -
 
quote:

Really????, I thought this was the East Taymouth Lawn Bowls Club Forum?. emoticon


Hey, lately so do I ! emoticon

quote:

Why do I need someone else to agree with me?, Hitler had millions of supporters, was he right?.
Oh, and David Meadows has agreed with me so there you go. emoticon


Yes, but not too many others. emoticon

7/3/2004, 18:30 Link to this post Send Email to Sandbagger1   Send PM to Sandbagger1
 
Sandbagger1 Profile
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I can Handel it

Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


quote:

Gillans micstand wrote:
Can I say this?:
when talking about young musicians the way sandbagger1 has here,it just might offend young musicians and cause them to show their strength and pride to an endless degree,only helping to prove that their is a place for them in todays musical landscape,whether there is any market value
or record company interest.
They have their place and they should defend it at all cost. emoticon


Sure, let them. Their music will still be crap to me. emoticon

7/3/2004, 18:32 Link to this post Send Email to Sandbagger1   Send PM to Sandbagger1
 
Gillans micstand Profile
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Registered: 11-2003
Posts: 12425
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Re: Saxon DVD review


You seem to have limited access to whats "new" and it's only fair to back that as Ritchies Hairs main point.
No offence whatsoever emoticon
7/3/2004, 18:43 Link to this post Send Email to Gillans micstand
 
David Meadows Profile
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The Fountain Of Useless Knowledge

Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


quote:

RitchiesHair wrote:
Oh, and David Meadows has agreed with me so there you go. emoticon


And I know everything emoticon
8/3/2004, 16:06 Link to this post Send Email to David Meadows   Send PM to David Meadows
 
David Meadows Profile
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The Fountain Of Useless Knowledge

Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


quote:

Sandbagger1 wrote:

quote:

RitchiesHair wrote:
I don't have "high hopes", I'm just more open-minded than you and I don't entertain the quite frankly ludicrous notion that no new bands will be able to do anything comparable to the bands of the 70s just because they're a newer band.emoticon


The Darkness, anyone ? Better or worse than a 70s band ?



I think many people on here will agree that The Darkness are not particularly great. But worse than *all* 70s bands? Have you edited the crap of the 70s out of your memory?

How about: The Darkness, better or worse than Kiss? (I would say "about equally as bad".)
8/3/2004, 16:15 Link to this post Send Email to David Meadows   Send PM to David Meadows
 
RitchiesHair Profile
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Unconvincing Hairpiece

Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


This one nearly slipped my mind after I couldn't get onto the site on Sunday and after all the things going on today, (well yesterday by now really).

quote:

Sandbagger1 wrote:

It's your opinion musicians today are just as good, isn't it ? That's what you've been saying througout your posts, loud and clear. And I assume you mean all genres not just prog.



I was about to do a point-by-point breakdown but this one caught my eye.

When you refer to "musicians today", are you just talking about the crap you hear on the radio or are you making a sweeping statement that every single young musician today is incapable of writing good music for some reason?.

My opinion is that there almost certainly are young musicians capable of writing great music, there's no reason why there can't be, but as I mentioned early on, no one will hear them unless they conform to the MTV mould and dumb down so it's unfair to a make a generalisation towards all musicians today just going by the drivel you hear through the popular entertainment channels. These words are a pretty accurate summary...

After a brief aberration in the late 60’s and 70’s, rock music has reverted to type, namely in that it is the preserve of the song writer, record producer, and record company, and is an area generally hostile to the ideas of a free thinking instrumentalist. That is probably as it should be, but it means the purveyors of the marginal fringe ideas that fuelled rock in the aberrant post-Beatles era, the people who brought Indian music, classical music, psychedelia, jazz, minimalism, and the like, in short all the things that made rock interesting, have been booted out, back to where they came from, branded as the meddlers they indeed were. I went back to jazz. There, the relationship is between performer and audience, as indeed it is in small intelligent rock, rather than performer and record company, as it is in the mass market. Waiting for someone at the "label" , who neither knows anything about nor cares for music, to give you permission to play, is of course, insufferable.

If you agree with that then this has all been a big misunderstanding and we're on the same page but if not then I'd love to hear what's preventing all young musicians from being able to compose and perform good music apart from the expectancies of record companies and the mass market. emoticon
9/3/2004, 3:19 Link to this post Send Email to RitchiesHair
 
David Meadows Profile
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The Fountain Of Useless Knowledge

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Re: Saxon DVD review


Where is the quote from? (I assume it is a quote.)
9/3/2004, 12:02 Link to this post Send Email to David Meadows   Send PM to David Meadows
 
Ali Tait Profile
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Purple fan

Registered: 10-2003
Posts: 325
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Re: Saxon DVD review


Saxon's Wheels Of Steel album is a killer album! Full of killer riffs!
9/3/2004, 16:22 Link to this post Send Email to Ali Tait   Send PM to Ali Tait
 
Sandbagger1 Profile
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I can Handel it

Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


Well, indeed I know what you're saying RH; MTV and record bosses have too much power and too little knowledge, I could never argue with that. People working for the big record companies are in many cases virtually identical to the young people they sell it to, so how are they supposed to know anything about anything outside certain "in" genres.emoticon Pretty sad affair, but I look forward to hearing all the genius rock songs you're convinced are yet to be written (which genre, BTW ?) although I don't think the chances are good it'll change for the better company-wise any time soon. emoticon
9/3/2004, 16:32 Link to this post Send Email to Sandbagger1   Send PM to Sandbagger1
 


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