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Rahul Profile
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Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


quote:

Sandbagger1 wrote:

Show me new songwriters as good as, say, Ian Anderson and I'll agree with you.



Who was it who said that the problem facing new musicians is that most of it has already been done before?
3/3/2004, 11:19 Link to this post Send Email to Rahul   Send PM to Rahul
 
RitchiesHair Profile
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Unconvincing Hairpiece

Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


quote:

Sandbagger1 wrote:

I'm a Jack Jones fan actually.emoticon Show me new songwriters as good as, say, Ian Anderson and I'll agree with you. Firstly, it's impossible of course because they won't have the same experiences that he's been through, secondly, in most cases they'll also have listened to very different types of music growing up. It all adds up to a very different kind of young rock songwriter we have today, most of whom will never have payed much attention to jazz or classical music, even folk or country. DP and the artists I mentioned all did as kids, I think Paicey will agree. Maybe you say it's a generalization, but I'm yet to see (or hear, rather) those magnificent talents we're supposed to have today, all I hear is monotony. Even 80s heavy metal had better melodies most of the time. Houston, we have a problem.



The "how on earth could you possibly know that?" question pops up, if you actually are a young songwriter then I will agree with you....although I suspect that you must be because you seem to know exactly what they see, hear, think and live through. emoticon

There are probably better songwriters than Ian Anderson around today but you're not hearing them because they're either stuck in a dank basement club somewhere or flipping burgers at McDonalds because they can't make any money out of it. Cerebral music went out of favour with the record company bigwigs a while ago and any band or artist that doesn't make major concessions to fit the mould will go unheard by the masses. Again, don't make assumptions like that when you clearly haven't any experience that entitles you to make them with any credibility.

Anyway, even if you do hear a better songwriter then I'd wager that you wouldn't admit it because your words are a symptom of GODS, (Good Ol' Days Syndrome), which is basically an ingrained belief that everything done in the past is better because it's become somewhat of a sacred cow and you can't entertain the notion that it might have been equalled or *gasp* improved upon. I'm sure if any 1920s bluesman, mediaeval minstrel, Gypsy musician or great Renaissance or Baroque composer was here to offer an opinion then they'd lament the efforts of later generations for various reasons, (most of them imagined). emoticon
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Sandbagger1 Profile
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I can Handel it

Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


But that is exactly the problem; things have NOT been improved upon. Like you said, the classical masters would undoubtedly lament todays composers in most genres - "is this really what it's come to ?". I'm pretty sure they're rolling over in their graves at the present state of lame disco/soul/pop music. Which new songwriters have you heard who're better than Ian A. (to use that example) ? I'm sure there are plenty of "prog writers" out there, I just doubt they're better or even as good as our heroes. Marillion is a good band (or used to be), but Queensryche is overrated. There's nothing wrong with saying you prefer 60s, 70s or 80s music, IMO. If the notion that there is good and bad music always were true, how come there seem to be so precious little good music today ? I may not hear the good stuff you say, but even if I did who knows. Another sure fact that people liked better music in the past is the fact that bands like Styx, Kansas, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Foreigner, etc. sold millions, filled stadiums and featured heavily on the radio. I'm sick and tired of the current boring and similar "lullaby rock" songs, from Pearl Jam to Alanis M., from Marilyn Manson to The Darkness, from Radiohead to whoever, etc., etc. Have they learned nothing ?! Out of sheer desperation I find myself going back to my metal youth of the early 80s, and listen to bands like Saxon, Dio, Manowar, Motorhead, Judas Priest, etc. And of course Deep Purple because I know what it is and that satisfaction is always guaranteed. emoticon
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Gillans micstand Profile
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Re: Saxon DVD review


Without a direct market for hard rock as a catagory there isn't much anyone can do,now is there. emoticon
------------------




"don't sweat the petty stuff,
just pet the sweaty stuff"
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David Meadows Profile
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Re: Saxon DVD review


quote:

Sandbagger1 wrote:

I'm a Jack Jones fan actually.emoticon



Nothing wrong with that emoticon

quote:

Show me new songwriters as good as, say, Ian Anderson and I'll agree with you.



Bryan Josh.

quote:

Firstly, it's impossible of course because they won't have the same experiences that he's been through,



The argument makes no sense. Obviously, no two people ever have the same experiences. Having "different" experiences is not the same as having "worse" or "less valid" or "less diverse" or "not likely to produce good music" experiences, though. It just means they're... different.

Roger Glover hasn't had the same experiences as Ian Anderson, either. Does that make Glover a worse song writer than Anderson? (Go on... say yes... I dare you emoticon )

quote:

I'm yet to see (or hear, rather) those magnificent talents we're supposed to have today,



Bryan Josh.

Last edited by David Meadows, 4/3/2004, 13:58
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David Meadows Profile
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The Fountain Of Useless Knowledge

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Re: Saxon DVD review


quote:

Sandbagger1 wrote:
Which new songwriters have you heard who're better than Ian A. (to use that example) ?



Bryan Josh.

(Is there an echo in here? emoticon )
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Milan Fahrnholz Profile
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Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


quote:

David Meadows wrote:

quote:

Sandbagger1 wrote:
Which new songwriters have you heard who're better than Ian A. (to use that example) ?



Bryan Josh.

(Is there an echo in here? emoticon )



Bryan Josh Josh-josh-josh-osh-osh-osh...
4/3/2004, 14:12 Link to this post  
 
RitchiesHair Profile
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Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


quote:

Sandbagger1 wrote:

But that is exactly the problem; things have NOT been improved upon.



In your opinion, 35 years ago there were people shaking their heads in sadness and disgust at these crap new bands like Pink Floyd.

quote:

Like you said, the classical masters would undoubtedly lament todays composers in most genres - "is this really what it's come to ?". I'm pretty sure they're rolling over in their graves at the present state of lame disco/soul/pop music.



And what do you think they'd be saying about Rush or Yes...something along the lines of "talentless bloody amateurs, they call that symphonic?, simplistic more like it". Tastes and perceptions change throughout time, live with it.

quote:

Which new songwriters have you heard who're better than Ian A. (to use that example) ? I'm sure there are plenty of "prog writers" out there, I just doubt they're better or even as good as our heroes. Marillion is a good band (or used to be), but Queensryche is overrated.



How do you define a good songwriter?, is it intelligent and insightful lyrics?...plenty of those about, even from rappers, is it technical virtuosity and complicated arrangements?...well if that's the case then nearly everything written after about 1800 is utter crap in comparison, or is it simply something that you can connect with and moves you?...if so then what moves people and what they can connect with will be different for everyone so unless everyone thinks along the same lines as you then that's impossible to answer.

quote:

There's nothing wrong with saying you prefer 60s, 70s or 80s music, IMO.



If you go back a few posts then you'll see that I've written more or less exactly the same thing. emoticon

quote:

If the notion that there is good and bad music always were true, how come there seem to be so precious little good music today ?



Because what you, (and I), call good is neither popular, profitable or even currently relevant today but it was back then so you heard lots of people playing it and record companies were signing and promoting them. There is "good" music around today, you just obviously don't like it...just like most people of your parent's generation didn't like your music.
 

quote:

I may not hear the good stuff you say, but even if I did who knows. Another sure fact that people liked better music in the past is the fact that bands like Styx, Kansas, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Foreigner, etc. sold millions, filled stadiums and featured heavily on the radio.



People didn't "like better music" in the past, your, (and my), favourite kind of music was just more popular and relevant at the time.

 
quote:

I'm sick and tired of the current boring and similar "lullaby rock" songs, from Pearl Jam to Alanis M., from Marilyn Manson to The Darkness, from Radiohead to whoever, etc., etc. Have they learned nothing ?!



And I'm certain that there are many people who can't stand the overblown pompousity of prog*, the saccharine sweetness of some Beatles tunes*, or the slow, lightweight pap of these decrepit dinosaurs*. Different people will like and perceive different things in different ways due to differing opinions and tastes, neither one is wrong but neither one is right either...that's something you clearly need to learn. emoticon


quote:

Out of sheer desperation I find myself going back to my metal youth of the early 80s, and listen to bands like Saxon, Dio, Manowar, Motorhead, Judas Priest, etc. And of course Deep Purple because I know what it is and that satisfaction is always guaranteed. emoticon



Nothing wrong with that.


*Not my opinion

Last edited by RitchiesHair, 4/3/2004, 18:11
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Gillans micstand Profile
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Re: Saxon DVD review


 emoticon
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Sandbagger1 Profile
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I can Handel it

Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Saxon DVD review


I've said all along that I don't like much new music, that makes it bad IMO. -Remember, we're supposed to be entitled to that opinion of what's good and bad. I'm quite sure the classical masters would love Rush, Yes, Tull, Kansas, Floyd, etc., and with good reason, it's intelligent and complicated music to write and perform. Just like they would understand what Jon Lord is up to, and at the same time curse the crap in the charts. Show me a younger rock musician jamming away in his garage who'll one day be able to compose such brilliant and moving music as these guys, he most likely never will be because, for one thing, he'll simply have too many distractions and possibilities today. That's how much times have changed, I'm afraid. Smashing Pumpkins or Kylie Minogue, it's all the same to me. BTW, who's Bryan Josh ?!

Last edited by Sandbagger1, 5/3/2004, 8:15
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