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David Meadows
The Fountain Of Useless Knowledge
Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 5670
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Re: Bush is a moron
quote:
MrEd45 wrote:
better. As that legendary statesman Winston Spencer Churchill (one of the greatest men in history, in my non-humble opinion)
The man who who originally came up with the idea of gassing Kurds in Iraq? Yep, what a great man... 
---
"Learning to listen
Learning to see
Learning is power
Making me free"
-- Jon Anderson
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26/1/2005, 11:30
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Milan Fahrnholz
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Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Bush is a moron
Oh yeah, Winston Churchill one of the most mistunderstood and overrated persons in history. Along with John F "I´ll nuke the world until only one american and one russian are left" Kennedy.
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26/1/2005, 12:20
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Swiss Martina
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Registered: 11-2004
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Re: Bush is a moron
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"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever". - Napoléon Bonaparte
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26/1/2005, 13:15
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Atle
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Registered: 09-2003
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Re: Bush is a moron
quote:
MrEd45 wrote:
Winston Spencer Churchill :
"Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the others that have been tried."
This is a great excuse for ppl celebrating apathy, in any political context.
There's no argument here 'democracy' has ever turned into anything good, for anyone. Neither does it prove that we do know too much about the past. Or the present.
Mr WSC would be a honored member of "The short time memory club". Have a cigar!
The great thing with 'democracy' and 'freedom' is that whatever you really are talking about, ppl will believe it's something good. You don't even have to explain very much. So to all political aspirants, memorize the words 'democracy' and 'freedom'. That will take you far!
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In heaven, everything is fine...
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26/1/2005, 16:17
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Gurra
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Registered: 10-2003
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Re: Bush is a moron
quote:
MrEd45 wrote:
I'd also like to know who you'd rather see in the position that the U.S. enjoys in today's world? My feeling is that yes, the 'job' could be done better...it's just that in an imperfect world, the U.S. is the best qualified to hold such power, in my opinion.quote]
I would prefer that no single country had this power and that it instead was the UN who had the position that the U.S occupies today. Unfortunetly are their power constantly being undermined by the U.S.
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Everyone got something to hide, except me and my monkey
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26/1/2005, 17:15
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ClevelandSteamer
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Registered: 01-2004
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Re: Bush is a moron
I don't think the problem is so much about democracy as it is about unfettered capitalism.
There is a need for the separation between the church and state, but what if money has become the religion?
You can't run a country as though it were a company, and if you do, the result is that the main reason of society (ie the protection and betterment of ALL citizens) is lost. Bad decisions are being made based on money. You can only subvert people for so long before they stand up and say "no".
I pray that at least the social security system in the US is not dismantled. There was a reason for it in the first place, and human nature doesn't change...but Bush is already spreading his bullshit about a pending "crisis". I hope the true facts get out so that a just decision can be made.
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Feltch2Forever lives!
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26/1/2005, 23:11
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MrEd45
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Re: Bush is a moron
quote:
MrSnip wrote:
a) I am talking about the future. It´s the signals Bush (And therefore US) sends to the rest of the world. The speech Bush was making, retaking the presidential golf-car, was making me think of 1933. I got the shakes.
b) no oil, no gold, no diamonds to steal, no interrest.
c) Ask in latin Amrerica, South America, the Arabian peninsula, Asia, and you might see a complete different picture.
d) True, UN was manipulated into that Gulf War. And as long as UN is not involved, US are committing crimes against humanity, when they go to war. There´s obviously no self defence.
e) Bush and his mates, manipulated the world to go into war on his side (both father and son), by filling the world with lies.
f)Still no weapons of mass destruction found! Still no threats against US revealed.
g)I don´t give a rats arse about the people of Iraq.
h)You have to achieve freedom through struggle to fully apreciate it, and not getting it dragged over your face.
i) I am not an anti American, but I am an anti Bush.
j)I would happily support a mercenary force,
k)if they could get rid of him for good.
a) Fair enough. But I think that seeing as the future is pretty unpredictable - to a reasonable extent - we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the past has an incredible impact on our present, and by logical extension, our future. The past can't be ignored in such a discussion as this and have it be thought of as the fairest, most encompassing discussion that's possible.
b) Merely a few specific examples from a potential laundry list...I'm glad we seem to agree, seeing as you ended up with what I believe I was saying anyway : no interest.
c) Gee, thanks for specifying some of what I myself conceded as 'evil' + 'umbrella-ed' under the general heading of 'evil', only I neglected to specify. Now, for a 'fairer assessment' (like I was suggesting), let's ask some others... 
d) I'm a little confused...is that a typo about the U.N. being manipulated? I'm just curious, as anyone living outside of Iraq + Kuwait (in particular) was manipulated into supporting/participating [in]that war.
As far as wars being crimes against humanity - no matter who's participating, for what reasons, who started it, etc.,etc. - I agree wholeheartedly with that!
e) True
f) Well, for the first part of this, I suppose what's a 'weapon of mass destruction' should be addressed. I think it's a subjective definition. To most people, it seems to be nukes, germ bombs, etc.,etc. To me, a simple .50 calibre M2 machine gun is most certainly a weapon of mass destruction...and I bet anyone shot by one would consider it as such, too. To me, all the talk - no matter by who, or from which 'side' - about what constitutes 'mass destruction', brings to mind the old saying: '10 people dead in an auto accident is a horrific tragedy...10 million dead is simply a large number.' My point on this is that if someone opens fire in a market with a single .50 calibre MG + kills 20 people, let's say...those 20 and thier friends + families will certainly consider it a horrific tragedy and the weapon used a 'weapon of mass destruction.' If the real motivation is to deny someone the use of 'WMD's, then every country that's advanced past the arrow/spear/sword stage (weapons-wise) MUST be invaded on this basis...come to think of it, any that're past the rock throwing stage MUST be inveded.
As stated, the whole thing about invading Iraq because Hussein had 'WMD's was ludicrous...if he did have them, I feel he would've used them long before his country was invaded. Mere 'window dressed' excuses, unfactual rationale + self-justification...none of which fooled me for 1/10th of a second. Thus my non-support of the invasion of Iraq..
For the 2nd part, I never would've considered Hussein or Iraq an immediate threat to the U.S. Hussein/Iraq could be reasonably termed a 'threat by proxy', but that makes them no different from numerous other countries/leaders. Perhaps a bit 'higher on the list', but certainly not an immediate threat, as I said.
g) In general, me either. As a fellow human, I give a modicum of a damn, but no more/no less than I do for other fellow humans in the specifics.
h) As an American, I find this to be pretty damn close to being a 100% accurate statement.
i) I'm anti-Bush, also. I'll take this opportunity to say that after finishing my earlier post, I think I responded in a manner that wasn't conveying that I realize you felt this way. I composed it 'on the wing', so to say - I was hurrying out the door and didn't give it the think/read through I should've. You were clearly expressing an anti-Bush sentiment, and I let it seem like an anti-American one - which it clearly wasn't. I hope this post has cleared that up a little.
j) that's certainly your privilege.
k) I know it's no consolation, but Dubya will be 'gone for good' (with any luck!) - at least as President of the United States - in 4 years.
We'll all just have to muddle through 'til then + hope that we Americans get a decent choice in the next election...we haven't had one of those in quite a while now.
Last edited by MrEd45, 27/1/2005, 2:47
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" Those who can - do. Those who can't do - teach. Those who can't do or teach - administrate."
- Anon.
" One that will not reason is a bigot. One that cannot reason is an ignoramus. One that dares not reason is a slave." - Anon
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26/1/2005, 23:49
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Ritchies Strat
Banned user
Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 4267
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Re: Bush is a moron
Canada's #1 sport, the greatest game of all...Ice hockey. They need no defence. As an American with great respect for our northern neighbors, unlike those ciesta lovin slugs from our south, I would be glad to help our neighbors to the north. Just send of few of us (ice hockey players) out there and we'd be glad to kick some ass. Let's see those slippery Allah lovin retards try to catch some of us ice hockey players on a giant pond. We know where the cracks are..ha..ha..ha..
---
"Every time she goes Vavoom,
I wiggle in my chair"- excerpt from the book 'Things a Grown Man Should Never Say'.
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27/1/2005, 0:01
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MrEd45
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Re: Bush is a moron
Just thought I'd say to David + Milan - I never said they were perfect/faultless/blameless/mistake free..just that Churchill was (overall) a great man. And I happen to thoroughly agree with the content of the quotes I quoted. Kennedy's is fantastic...it explains democracy + freedom in a nutshell, yet as clearly + eloquently as any 1000 page treatis can or could.
Churchill's point up the paradox of democracy quite nicely, I think.
Milan - Seeing as it was a button push away - literally - I don't quite get your point...one of mine, as made to MrSnip, is that restraint to NOT do so was + has been used...on the U.S.'s part, since Horoshima + Nagasaki, anyway.
David - In the context of the times + what was deemed acceptable, and an act that was born of what was seen as a necessity at the time...yes, a great decision.
Like I said, I wasn't attempting to use these two as any sort of 'paragons of virtue' or as any sort of 'perfect humans'...the quotes just happened to come from them, and I agree with the sentiments/principles/thought processes/whatever that led to the content of the quotes .
---
" Those who can - do. Those who can't do - teach. Those who can't do or teach - administrate."
- Anon.
" One that will not reason is a bigot. One that cannot reason is an ignoramus. One that dares not reason is a slave." - Anon
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27/1/2005, 0:10
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MrEd45
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Re: Bush is a moron
quote:
atle wrote:
a) This is a great excuse for ppl celebrating apathy, in any political context.
b)There's no argument here 'democracy' has ever turned into anything good, for anyone.
c) Neither does it prove that we do know too much about the past. Or the present.
d)Mr WSC would be a honored member of "The short time memory club". Have a cigar!
e) The great thing with 'democracy' and 'freedom' is that whatever you really are talking about, ppl will believe it's something good. You don't even have to explain very much.
f)So to all political aspirants, memorize the words 'democracy' and 'freedom'. That will take you far!
a) I like to think I'm reasonably intelligent...but this makes no sense to me. Will you try to explain a bit more?
b) You can't be serious. This is a completetly ludicrous statement...especially coming from someone who's making it from within a free, democratic society. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting? Is it your contention that democracy hasn't resulted in any good for anyone?
c) I think it certainly does. Name me a form that worked better that lasted for any signifigant length of time, and made any signifigant impact while being better than democracy? I'd be very interested, and possibly willing to advocate it as an alternative.
The only thing we don't know too much about is the future...and if we ignore the lessons of the past, that future will certainly get fouled up!
d) I can agree with that!
e) It's not in the words - it's in the actions + the practice thereof. The words can be anything...though 'freedom' + 'democracy' DO have a certain 'ring' or appeal to them, don't they?
f) Yes, they will...like I said, as long as you practice them and not merely 'mouth' them. In the end it's up to the people whether the ones who used them (generally political leaders) are actually 'practicing what they preached'...if not, being the 'son' of rebellious sumbitches (Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, Adams, etc.,etc.), I fully advocate revolution as a solution.
Last edited by MrEd45, 27/1/2005, 2:35
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" Those who can - do. Those who can't do - teach. Those who can't do or teach - administrate."
- Anon.
" One that will not reason is a bigot. One that cannot reason is an ignoramus. One that dares not reason is a slave." - Anon
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27/1/2005, 0:23
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