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britstyx Profile
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Purple fan

Registered: 08-2004
Posts: 129
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Re: The Greatest Band of 20th century pop music..


quote:

Rezi wrote:

quote:

britstyx wrote:


1) Rezi, it was hyperbole; the overstatement (claiming an opinion to be a fact) for effect, rhetoric. I thought that was obvious from all the smileys, but never mind! emoticon

2) Yep, you're quire correct there. And my opinion is/was that they sucked.

3) Then I'm curious why you nominated them, but maybe I'm missing soemthing

4) I'm not sure I would class Deep Purple as "pop" music; rather I would class them as rock. But if we are including pop in the broadest terms possible, then yes, Purple, Styx, Maiden would be my favourites. But GREATEST? I woudl have to say the Beatles, if nothing else, for their enduring influence, if not for their music.

5) That's handy, because I don't! emoticon

6) Cultural significane?!! What cultural significance? Now if you had mentioned UB40, Billy Bragg (OK, I know he's not a group), The Specials, Madness, or even The pogues or the Sex Pistols, I would agree. But The Smiths? As the late Kenny Everett would have said, you canNOT be serious!

7) Now, why would I look around to see how significant The Smiths are now, or even if they exist now, when I thougth that they were utter tosh first time around, hmm?!

8) The Beatles would PROBABLY beat The Smiths hands down? Are you mad? The Beatles woudl beat ANYONE hands down in terms of the greatest (most influential) group of the twentieth century, including the likes of Led Zeppelin, and, yes, Deep Purple. The Smiths wouldn't be in the same race, far less come close. And that really is a fact, no hyperbole or opinionating, and has nothing to do with my like or dislike of the band.




1. The way you used the smileys very much implies you weren't joking when you said the band is over-blown crap. Take a look of your original post and you'll see it. But an example to clarify the point: "Britstyx, I like Maiden and, guess what, DP emoticon but otherwise your taste in music sucks". Get the idea? Btw, I'm not saying your taste in music sucks, but used a bit rude example to make my point.

3. Their significance is more than their musical success, see #6.

4. Pop music as in 'popular music', meaning to, e.g. classical music. I think (like I wrote above, see my previous post) I made that clear. This topic's title certainly has that meaning for pop.

6. Again, see my earlier post. I won't repeat what I said, but as an example, one major cultural aspect is their serious challening of the London dominated British popular culture. Now, why do you name UB40 for example (instead of just denying my opinions, let's hear some of your - with at least some explanations)?

7. Looking around is a nice way to see what's going on outside one's head. The Smiths were just voted as the most important band of all time in Britain by influential people. There are academic conferences on the band now and then. Their fan culture is stronger than ever when the band was active.



Rezi

1) If you found it offensive, I apologize. It was intended to be humourous, using the preceding post (Are you British, since I know you are not gay) as a springboard. As ever, what I thought was obvious to all, was not. Ahh, the perils of trying to be humourous in a BB environment!

3) Well they were very popular at their height. I still fail to see their enduring significance, however, or even any significance at the time; although I am sure that was influemced by (a) the fact that I lived in the London area and (b) I disliked Morrisey's voice with a passion, so paid them little or no attention

6 & 7) See my point above; I am astounded that anyone would find them to be the most important band of all time by anyone, but as they say, there's nowt so strange as folks. While they are not my favourite bands by any means, I do not see that anyone is or was more influential than the Beatles, or will ever be.

Regarding my choices, my reasons would be that

UB40 heralded the new era of reggae, gaining acceptance of it by the mainstream, as well as being (occasional) political commentators - though most of their commentary came form their name alone (UB40 being the name of the unemployment benefit form in Britain at a time of deep political unrest and high unemployment in the UK)

Billy Bragg again for his political, left wing commentary (he was hailed as the most important political singer/songwriter sinxce Bob Dylan)

The Specials again, because of their political commentary

Madness, similar to UB40, although they were the vanguards for the new Ska movement and Two Tone records. Two Tone records were perhaps the most important cultural/musical phenomenon throughout the 80's

The Sex Pistols because they caused a long hard, and uncomfortable, look at British society and establishment. the pogues less so, but they interesting in that, while a punk band, they came at a time when punk was almost much more accepted and viewed with fond memories. Had they arrived on the scene at the same time as the Sex Pistols, the Stranglers, the Clash, et al, I doubt that they would have been nearly so noticeable.

---
Phil :)

Styx, Deep Purple and Iron Maiden - music doesn't get any better than that

www.geocities.com/britstyx64
8/4/2005, 14:43 Link to this post Send Email to britstyx   Send PM to britstyx
 
Rezi Profile
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Registered: 04-2004
Posts: 16629
Reply | Quote
Re: The Greatest Band of 20th century pop music..


quote:

britstyx wrote:

quote:

Rezi wrote:

quote:

britstyx wrote:


1) Rezi, it was hyperbole; the overstatement (claiming an opinion to be a fact) for effect, rhetoric. I thought that was obvious from all the smileys, but never mind! emoticon

2) Yep, you're quire correct there. And my opinion is/was that they sucked.

3) Then I'm curious why you nominated them, but maybe I'm missing soemthing

4) I'm not sure I would class Deep Purple as "pop" music; rather I would class them as rock. But if we are including pop in the broadest terms possible, then yes, Purple, Styx, Maiden would be my favourites. But GREATEST? I woudl have to say the Beatles, if nothing else, for their enduring influence, if not for their music.

5) That's handy, because I don't! emoticon

6) Cultural significane?!! What cultural significance? Now if you had mentioned UB40, Billy Bragg (OK, I know he's not a group), The Specials, Madness, or even The pogues or the Sex Pistols, I would agree. But The Smiths? As the late Kenny Everett would have said, you canNOT be serious!

7) Now, why would I look around to see how significant The Smiths are now, or even if they exist now, when I thougth that they were utter tosh first time around, hmm?!

8) The Beatles would PROBABLY beat The Smiths hands down? Are you mad? The Beatles woudl beat ANYONE hands down in terms of the greatest (most influential) group of the twentieth century, including the likes of Led Zeppelin, and, yes, Deep Purple. The Smiths wouldn't be in the same race, far less come close. And that really is a fact, no hyperbole or opinionating, and has nothing to do with my like or dislike of the band.




1. The way you used the smileys very much implies you weren't joking when you said the band is over-blown crap. Take a look of your original post and you'll see it. But an example to clarify the point: "Britstyx, I like Maiden and, guess what, DP emoticon but otherwise your taste in music sucks". Get the idea? Btw, I'm not saying your taste in music sucks, but used a bit rude example to make my point.

3. Their significance is more than their musical success, see #6.

4. Pop music as in 'popular music', meaning to, e.g. classical music. I think (like I wrote above, see my previous post) I made that clear. This topic's title certainly has that meaning for pop.

6. Again, see my earlier post. I won't repeat what I said, but as an example, one major cultural aspect is their serious challening of the London dominated British popular culture. Now, why do you name UB40 for example (instead of just denying my opinions, let's hear some of your - with at least some explanations)?

7. Looking around is a nice way to see what's going on outside one's head. The Smiths were just voted as the most important band of all time in Britain by influential people. There are academic conferences on the band now and then. Their fan culture is stronger than ever when the band was active.



Rezi

1) If you found it offensive, I apologize. It was intended to be humourous, using the preceding post (Are you British, since I know you are not gay) as a springboard. As ever, what I thought was obvious to all, was not. Ahh, the perils of trying to be humourous in a BB environment!

3) Well they were very popular at their height. I still fail to see their enduring significance, however, or even any significance at the time; although I am sure that was influemced by (a) the fact that I lived in the London area and (b) I disliked Morrisey's voice with a passion, so paid them little or no attention

6 & 7) See my point above; I am astounded that anyone would find them to be the most important band of all time by anyone, but as they say, there's nowt so strange as folks. While they are not my favourite bands by any means, I do not see that anyone is or was more influential than the Beatles, or will ever be.

Regarding my choices, my reasons would be that

UB40 heralded the new era of reggae, gaining acceptance of it by the mainstream, as well as being (occasional) political commentators - though most of their commentary came form their name alone (UB40 being the name of the unemployment benefit form in Britain at a time of deep political unrest and high unemployment in the UK)

Billy Bragg again for his political, left wing commentary (he was hailed as the most important political singer/songwriter sinxce Bob Dylan)

The Specials again, because of their political commentary

Madness, similar to UB40, although they were the vanguards for the new Ska movement and Two Tone records. Two Tone records were perhaps the most important cultural/musical phenomenon throughout the 80's

The Sex Pistols because they caused a long hard, and uncomfortable, look at British society and establishment. the pogues less so, but they interesting in that, while a punk band, they came at a time when punk was almost much more accepted and viewed with fond memories. Had they arrived on the scene at the same time as the Sex Pistols, the Stranglers, the Clash, et al, I doubt that they would have been nearly so noticeable.



Phil, no offense was or is taken. Hopefully this is the case the other way around as well.

Rather than keeping on defending my choice - other than reminding you of 'the Smiths tourism' to Manchester, where like Liverpool and the Beatles, the various locations of the group's/members' history as well as buildings, lanscapes etc are visited, with the aid of tourbooks designed for it (plus, hasn't my vote sparked at least some debate...), I'll comment yours (thanks for the list!).

All of those groups/artists were successful and influential at their time, but only the Sex Pistols remain to have a lasting meaning for people. Political commentary in itself isn't the thing (DP are political, not just the way 'everything is political', but IG's lyrics oftenare very much that). Every punk band had the anti-establishment stance. The Sex Pistols may have been political, but above all, they were about fashion (if you don't take my word for it, ask Malcolm McLaren of Johnny Rotten). But yes, they remain to be an important part of British pop history.


Last edited by Rezi, 11/4/2005, 6:27
11/4/2005, 6:25 Link to this post Send Email to Rezi   Send PM to Rezi
 
britstyx Profile
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Purple fan

Registered: 08-2004
Posts: 129
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Re: The Greatest Band of 20th century pop music..


quote:

Rezi wrote:

Phil, no offense was or is taken. Hopefully this is the case the other way around as well.




No, none at all!

quote:

Rezi wrote:
Rather than keeping on defending my choice - other than reminding you of 'the Smiths tourism' to Manchester, where like Liverpool and the Beatles, the various locations of the group's/members' history as well as buildings, lanscapes etc are visited, with the aid of tourbooks designed for it (plus, hasn't my vote sparked at least some debate...), I'll comment yours (thanks for the list!).


Well I had no idea about that, I'll be honest, although I will admit to an anti-Mancunian bias, being a Yorkshireman at heart, if not birth, and a Leeds fan to boot.

quote:

Rezi wrote:
All of those groups/artists were successful and influential at their time, but only the Sex Pistols remain to have a lasting meaning for people. Political commentary in itself isn't the thing (DP are political, not just the way 'everything is political', but IG's lyrics often are very much that). Every punk band had the anti-establishment stance. The Sex Pistols may have been political, but above all, they were about fashion (if you don't take my word for it, ask Malcolm McLaren of Johnny Rotten). But yes, they remain to be an important part of British pop history.



Well I think that the political commentry was significant because of the era; never since the 60s and Vietnam had we witnessed such a surge in political protest/political songs.

And while there are some here now, they are few and far between; but then, Bush is nowhere near as unpopular as Reagan was. And certainly nowhere near as hugely unpopular and polarizing as Thatcher was; she caused so much economic, political and social unrest, upheaval and turmoil. Remember the astronimical unemployment rates coupled with high inflation (the original double whammy)? The civil unrest and disobedience over the Poll Tax? The Miners' Strike? (Arthur Scargill was right all along, of course, although he was also the catalyst for a self-fulfilling prophecy).

And I would tend to disagree somewhat that the Pistols have any lasting influence, aside from the fact that they were about the best known and most notorious punk group, and I guess, the anti-monarchist stance.

But I guess it all comes down to how we term influence. Does it mean that people fondly remember them? In which case I suggest that all of the groups we have mentioned would qualify for that category.
If we mean a lasting influnce on the musical landscape, then I would suggest none of them do, with the possible exception of UB40 - due to the gradual progression of acceptance into the mainstream of first reggae, then rap and now hip hop. LAthough, of course, I am not suggesting for a second that hip hop was only possible because of UB40.

But if we mean a more lasting influence in history, then I suggest that Billy Bragg, et al, did have an influnce on the political landscape of the day. But the most influnecial musician in these terms must surely have been Sir Bob Geldof?

Anyway, that's quite enough rambling from me. So it's Britstyx out

---
Phil :)

Styx, Deep Purple and Iron Maiden - music doesn't get any better than that

www.geocities.com/britstyx64
14/4/2005, 2:06 Link to this post Send Email to britstyx   Send PM to britstyx
 
Rezi Profile
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Registered: 04-2004
Posts: 16629
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Re: The Greatest Band of 20th century pop music..


Good points there, Phil.

But as you can guess, I'm not going to change my opinion of the Smiths. For a final note on this matter, I just say that they combined musical output and artistical success and statement with the cultural and political issues so 'well' (for a much better word), that they are nowdays more popular and acknowledged than when they were active. But that's it.

Are you sure Reagan was more unpopular than Bush Jr.? He could have been, but I believe the unpopularity is quite different. In Reagan's time, there was the Soviet Union, a superpower. And as Bush also builds his whole politics on the war against terrorism, it is much harder for many people to understand why countries which are many times smaller and have dated armies could be any real threat. With SU, it was all different. But as the re-election of Bush shows, provoking fear is still a great weapon to gain votes ('if you don't vote and elect us, the terrorists will kill you').

Yeah, Thatcher's time was truly dark for Britain. But I guess many politicians around the world admired, or rather, envied her. She really did use her power as the PM. Most politicians only dream of that!

  
14/4/2005, 7:00 Link to this post Send Email to Rezi   Send PM to Rezi
 


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