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JSA1
Purple fan
Registered: 07-2006
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Re: Purple ,Zeppelin and Sabbath
quote:
Friedhelm wrote:
For me, Gillan never sang better than on Born again. But I agree, his voice was ruined during the time in BS. He's no bad singer since then, but no more the singer he was before. On topic: I didn't follow the careers of BS und LZ as much as I followed DP's. LZ played some really great music, but as soon as I knew that Whole lot of love was stolen, I lost a lot of respect. Although they made a great song out of it. And BS: They never got me hooked so much, that I wanted to listen to all their records.
I guess if you like that hard, raspy sound that he developed, it was fine. That beautiful tone and resonance, or timbre if you will, was gone by that time. The ability to go through that range that he had, going up in octaves, like CIT, either cleanly or screaming, was lost. I would have rather him not done Sabbath, taken more time off to get his voice in shape and then had the Purple reunion. I think that we would have had much better Gillan and maybe they would have stayed together. Instead, he fried his voice and never really recovered. 
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18/5/2016, 1:12
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ptr
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Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 3271
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Re: Purple ,Zeppelin and Sabbath
quote:
JSA1 wrote:
quote:
Friedhelm wrote:
For me, Gillan never sang better than on Born again. But I agree, his voice was ruined during the time in BS. He's no bad singer since then, but no more the singer he was before. On topic: I didn't follow the careers of BS und LZ as much as I followed DP's. LZ played some really great music, but as soon as I knew that Whole lot of love was stolen, I lost a lot of respect. Although they made a great song out of it. And BS: They never got me hooked so much, that I wanted to listen to all their records.
I guess if you like that hard, raspy sound that he developed, it was fine. That beautiful tone and resonance, or timbre if you will, was gone by that time. The ability to go through that range that he had, going up in octaves, like CIT, either cleanly or screaming, was lost. I would have rather him not done Sabbath, taken more time off to get his voice in shape and then had the Purple reunion. I think that we would have had much better Gillan and maybe they would have stayed together. Instead, he fried his voice and never really recovered.
Sometimes it seems that there were different Gillans in a band!  He had rough raspy sound mainly in Mk2a era (especially on In Rock and excluding occasional later stuff like Mitzi Dupree).... and then he got very raspy in TBRO era (which I consider as lowest point of his singing with DP).
100% agree with Friedhelm about Born Again - it´s one of Gillan´s best performance on any studio record. Tour itself is different thing (it was like day and night - some shows were absolutely stunning, some were bad), but actually - I think that his vocals on Perfect Strangers album are great too - Perfect Strangers (the song itself) is one of Gillan´s absolute vocal masterpieces and his voice in that particular track is BEAUTIFUL. In terms of live performance - it was similar to previous periods - there are some great shows (mainly from North American tour), some average ones (PS Live) and some disasterous (Paris).
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18/5/2016, 8:00
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lightintheblack0
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Registered: 07-2006
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Re: Purple ,Zeppelin and Sabbath
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ptr
100% agree with Friedhelm about Born Again - it´s one of Gillan´s best performance on any studio record..
I think Born Again is bloody awful it's an all time low in the careers of both ian and Sabbath imho
It's bloody cartoon cliqued rock went mad.You think this is a highlight performance in Gillans career? He was singing much better in the band Gillan than on BA .Huge drunken career mistake joining Sabbath imho
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18/5/2016, 14:41
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Big J
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Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 6077
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Re: Purple ,Zeppelin and Sabbath
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lightintheblack0 wrote:
quote:
ptr
100% agree with Friedhelm about Born Again - it´s one of Gillan´s best performance on any studio record..
I think Born Again is bloody awful it's an all time low in the careers of both ian and Sabbath imho
It's bloody cartoon cliqued rock went mad.You think this is a highlight performance in Gillans career? He was singing much better in the band Gillan than on BA .Huge drunken career mistake joining Sabbath imho
Couldn't agree more, apart from it being the all time low for Sabbath. I think Forbidden gets that honour with Born Again a distant second. Forbidden is virtually unlistenable.
Born Again has poor material and production, a terrible cover and an ill-suited Gillan. I know we're in the minority here on this!
--- Video clips from various gigs -> http://youtube.com/weissheim |
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18/5/2016, 15:50
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mtb7
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Re: Purple ,Zeppelin and Sabbath
Back in the day, as an almost-adolescent, I loved the cover as it shocked people - the perfect cover to show your granny when she innocently asked you whether you liked music:-)
But yeah, one does grow up...
Musically I think the songs are so-so, what ruins it for me is the production, it sounds like it was recorded at a lake; only, under the water.
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18/5/2016, 16:08
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ptr
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Re:
I consider Born Again as among best BS records (with first five Sabbath classic albums and then Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules).... actually with Headless Cross, last valuable Sabbath album (in terms of chronological order). 
Trashed, Stonehenge with Disturbing The Priest is classic itself. Zero The Hero... Great album! I have to admit that I had to get used to that sound, but actually I cant imagine it with different (proper) soundmix actually! It´s the heaviest album of Sabbath history!
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18/5/2016, 16:46
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dp344
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Registered: 09-2005
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Re: Purple ,Zeppelin and Sabbath
I prefer all Ozzy albums (except 13) to Born Again.
Even Never Say Die is more satisfactory, with Johnny Blade, Junior's Eyes better as anything on BA.
All Dio albums.
Even the Tony Martin albums (except Forbidden) are all better.
That leaves The 7th Star, recorded as a solo album, released as BS. Also miles ahead of BA.
BA to me is a bad joke with some ok tracks, overall unlistenable and certainly not one of Gillan's finest moments.
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19/5/2016, 12:59
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lightintheblack0
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Registered: 07-2006
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Re: Purple ,Zeppelin and Sabbath
quote:
Big J wrote:
quote:
lightintheblack0 wrote:
quote:
ptr
100% agree with Friedhelm about Born Again - it´s one of Gillan´s best performance on any studio record..
I think Born Again is bloody awful it's an all time low in the careers of both ian and Sabbath imho
It's bloody cartoon cliqued rock went mad.You think this is a highlight performance in Gillans career? He was singing much better in the band Gillan than on BA .Huge drunken career mistake joining Sabbath imho
Couldn't agree more, apart from it being the all time low for Sabbath. I think Forbidden gets that honour with Born Again a distant second. Forbidden is virtually unlistenable.
Born Again has poor material and production, a terrible cover and an ill-suited Gillan. I know we're in the minority here on this!
Good point Big J i had forgotten how bad Forbidden was  i just listened to it today, and your correct its bloody awful  Thing is I don't really see that era as Sabbath, its more like Tony Iommi solo stuff under the Sabbath name.
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19/5/2016, 16:40
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JSA1
Purple fan
Registered: 07-2006
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Re: Purple ,Zeppelin and Sabbath
quote:
lightintheblack0 wrote:
quote:
ptr
100% agree with Friedhelm about Born Again - it´s one of Gillan´s best performance on any studio record..
I think Born Again is bloody awful it's an all time low in the careers of both ian and Sabbath imho
It's bloody cartoon cliqued rock went mad.You think this is a highlight performance in Gillans career? He was singing much better in the band Gillan than on BA .Huge drunken career mistake joining Sabbath imho
Agree 100% here. I don't hear Gillan being 'raspy' on 'In Rock'. He could power up his voice for stuff like 'Speed King' and Bloodsucker, but what about CIT, HLM, Flight Of The Rat and Living Wreck? His voice is quite clear on those songs. He picked which song he wanted to grunge-up on all the MKII albums. What about JCS? No rasp there. His voice was crystal clear. He couldn't have done any of those tunes by the time he was in Sabbath. He still sang quite well in Gillan into early 1982. Listen to the 'Off The Record' concert recorded at Gillingham(?) Studios in early 1982. He sang soft, clear, grungy and with power depending on which tune he was singing. The closer, 'New Orleans' shows that he still had power and range. It cranked. He was hurting later in 1982 and was told to rest his voice for about a year. Instead, he went off to the voice-destroying Sabbath stint. His voice was baked by the end of that tour and never actually recovered by the time DP reformed. He was up and down big-time during the reunion tour. He sang real well sometimes and just plain awful at other times. I was lucky that I caught him on a couple of the good times. Plenty of recordings show him at the low points. Too bad for such a great singer and the man who got me into DP.
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19/5/2016, 17:59
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RatBatBlu
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Registered: 08-2012
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Re: Purple ,Zeppelin and Sabbath
I loved the BA cover as a kid...pissed off the parents 
The production of course was horrible but there are still some songs on it that I love (Trashed, Disturbing the Priest which is essentially a Scarabus re-write, Zero The Hero and the title track). But yeah, for the most part it was a horrible, drunken idea.
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19/5/2016, 19:57
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