Page: 1 2 3
Witchy Nightmare
Purple fan
Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 3372
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Some questions about moving threads
As some of you have read, there has been a discussion about whether a thread called "Child In Mime" should be moved from the "General Purple discussions" section to the Whitesnake / Coverdale section. This discussion has raised some trouble (which wasn't my intention, I considered such a question about a section move being quite harmless, as I had done such suggestions various times in the past without anyone getting annoyed about that), and to prevent that issue from raising even more trouble, I'd like to ask some questions to the board staff here:
1. If a board user thinks that a thread should be moved in another section (e.g. because the majority of the answers deal about a subject which, in his opinion, is better placed in another section), is he allowed to do such a suggestion, or does the board staff rather require from him to keep that to himself?
2. If he is allowed to do, what is the right place to do such a suggestion? Should he place it in the respective thread itself or rather in the "News & Feedback" section? Considering what happened in the "Child In Mime" thread I'd assume that "N&F" would have been the better place, using this section we could keep the discussion about a thread move - in case there is someone who wants to discuss about it - away from the discussion about the thread's subject itself. Concerning this matter, I can understand the thread opener's anger.
3. What is the staff's view about the role of a thread opener? In this case, the thread opener demanded some "ownership" about the thread ("this is my thread"), deriving from this that nobody except him / her has to decide about where the thread is placed. What is the staff's viewpoint about that? I think that the decision whether a thread is moved to another section has to be made by the board staff (after all, it's their board). In the "Child In Mime" case, there were two subjects mentioned in the opening entry, one of them clearly being a DP issue, the other being a Coverdale issue. The Coverdale issue has been discussed much more by the answering people than the other one (which wasn't surprising to me as we have discussed the "can Coverdale sing Gillan songs and vice versa" topic countless times here), and therefore I thought that the Coverdale section would be a better place. If the other one of the two subjects mentioned in the opening entry would have been discussed more, I never would have thought about the thread to be moved somewhere else.
After all, I certainly know that I don't have to decide about these things, therefore I'm asking the board staff.
Last edited by Witchy Nightmare, 22/7/2010, 11:50
|
|
22/7/2010, 10:57
|
Link to this post
Send Email to Witchy Nightmare
Send PM to Witchy Nightmare
|
Wott
Banned user
Registered: 07-2003
Posts: 2445
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Some questions about moving threads
Well you certainly did a good job deciding about my thread. So much so that I'm now convinced that you are Rezi.
There are some fundamental forum protocols that need to be observed to make any board a happy place for all people to post in. These are:
(a) Moderators, I believe, should take a completely impartial stance in any issues that arise. Not appear to favour some posters over others, whether that is intentional or not. Sadly, this is far from being the case on some forums I've viewed before and it certainly appears to be the case in this instance.
(b) Thread starters are the lifeblood of any forum. Without them there would be not discussion to contribute to and, consequently, no forum to speak of either. Without them Rezi and co wouldn't have any forum to moderate. Therefore it is only 'right' and 'proper' that they are consulted before any threads are moved across, clearly giving their reasons why and to elicit agreement. It's all about showing courtesy and respect. Something that is, very sadly, in very short supply in this day and age whether in cyberspace or not.
(c) We are not children either. Hard to believe sometimes, I know. But to look at the moderators as a sort of 'quasi' mummy and daddy you want to run to in order to tell on a naughty sibling (a poster or thread starter) to get them into trouble for raiding the biscuit tin at midnight is, quite frankly, insulting and is only appropriate if the forum rules you sign up to are being flagrantly breached to the disadvantage of everyone who might already be posting or are thinking of doing so. This sort of behaviour also suggests that you are in favour of a dictatorial form of command and rule that is more akin to the military dictatorship of North Korea than it is for a music discussion forum in cyberspace, which attracts DP fans of all creeds, colours, classes, personalities, etc. But one must also presume that you'd only do that if the moderator is very likely going to decide in your favour. Presumably, if you thought that they were unlikely to side with you and favour of the poster you were complaining about instead you would quickly conclude that mob-rule and anarchy is better served on any forum, including this one.
To put it more simply: it's called hypocrisy.
(d) It is also clear that the rules are being broken when posters sling insults at each other with monotonous regularity and troll threads. Not to mention aiming overtly sexist comments to female contributors on here. I don't want to come across like Harriet Harperson here, by appearing to be a ball breaking, man hating, bra burning feminist, but I don't think this kind of thing is appropriate in any arena and it says far more about the attitude and poster of these comments, than it does about the postee they're commenting about. If racially offensive comments are to be discouraged, so should sexist comments too.
(e) Tolerance. A big plus on any forum. If all of us were to behave like pen pushing tickbox obsessed civil servants who are forever observing whether threads are in the right spot or not, instead of contributing to the discussion, this rather suggests to me that the entire forum structure needs an urgent overhaul.
Given that there are more oil wells discovered in the bottom of the Thames each day than there are new threads started on this forum each day I would suggest that this forum needs to de-classify some of the sites and amalgamate them into fewer, broader categories.
1. Music - (music related stuff - gigs, albums, polls on music, equipment related topics etc.)
2. Artists - (musician related topics - barney, personality clashes, did you meet Jon Lord in Waitrose, etc)
3. General - (all other serious topics not in 1/2 - should we pull out of Afghanistan etc.)
4. Trivia/fun - jokes, bunny videos, what are you drinking, what films are you watching and other lightweight nonsense.
5. Forum improvements.
6. Pictures/photots ('Blackers' still needs his own spot).
At the moment many posters are disinclined to visit other sites specifically to do with particular artists they don't already listen to or have done in the past. I don't think I've ever visited the Nick Simper site, for example. Most of the posts are concentrated on four main sites - so why not make the DP Fan Forum four main sites and have done with it. This would save all of this hassle and bad feeling.
Last edited by Wott, 22/7/2010, 13:42
---
Wotty is your resident rock and metal guru, befitting an expert on petrology and metallography.
|
|
22/7/2010, 13:16
|
Link to this post
Send PM to Wott
|
Witchy Nightmare
Purple fan
Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 3372
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Some questions about moving threads
quote:
Wott wrote:
Well you certainly did a good job deciding about my thread. So much so that I'm now convinced that you are Rezi.
Not exactly. In fact I'm the Queen of China.
quote:
(a) Moderators, I believe, should take a completely impartial stance in any issues that arise. Not appear to favour some posters over others, whether that is intentional or not. Sadly, this is far from being the case on some forums I've viewed before and it certainly appears to be the case in this instance.
Agree. However, I'm convinced that Rezi didn't move the thread because he likes user X more than user Y, but rather moved it because he agreed to my opinion about moving it. He did a decision based on a certain matter, not on a personal favour. However, I'm interested whether he'll say something about that himself.
quote:
(b) Thread starters are the lifeblood of any forum.
If we only had thread starters here and no answerers, there wouldn't be any life blood at all.
For me, the point of all this (leaving alone silly comparisons with North Korea or whatever) is the question about what should be the deciding criteria for the location of a thread:
a) the way the thread has been started,
b) the way the discussion develops (this is my suggestion).
No doubt, the opening entry of the "Child In Mime" thread justified the thread being placed in the General Purple discussions section. The way the discussion developed, with the Coverdale miming issue being discussed much more than the Gillan / Coverdale song swap issue, made me suggest - and again, I just suggested, I didn't demand anything - a thread move.
Both options - a) and b) - have their advantages and their disadvantages. Both are legitime. Considering previous incidents, I assumed that thread move suggestions are allowed here, and as well accepted by the board users.
So I am very surprised that this issue apparently is considered being a personal issue here, leading to accusations of respectlessness and things like that. It wasn't meant like that at all. When I say that I consider section X being the best one for a discussion about topic Y, it's about a certain matter for me, not about raising a personal conflict. Seriously, the question whether David Coverdale is miming more than 30 years after having left Deep Purple is more a Whitesnake topic than a DP topic.
To avoid misunderstandings I'd like to add that I wouldn't have been upset at all if the board staff had decided against my suggestion. My peace of mind isn't dependent on whether a thread at the Deep Purple Fan Forum is located in section X or section Y. For me, the essence of life isn't built on things like that.
And finally, I'd like to point out that I have contributed something ontopic to that "Child In Mime" thread (although I found it redundant as we had discussed the Gillan / Coverdale song swap issue many times before). I have written over 900 posts here and done three thread move suggestions (afair), with this one being the first to raise trouble. Everyone is encouraged to do his own judge whether my overall contribution to this board justifies accusations like "trolling" and all these things claimed in the discussion about this thread move suggestion.
|
|
22/7/2010, 16:01
|
Link to this post
Send Email to Witchy Nightmare
Send PM to Witchy Nightmare
|
Wott
Banned user
Registered: 07-2003
Posts: 2445
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Some questions about moving threads
quote:
Witchy Nightmare wrote:
quote:
Wott wrote:
Well you certainly did a good job deciding about my thread. So much so that I'm now convinced that you are Rezi.
Not exactly. In fact I'm the Queen of China.
quote:
(a) Moderators, I believe, should take a completely impartial stance in any issues that arise. Not appear to favour some posters over others, whether that is intentional or not. Sadly, this is far from being the case on some forums I've viewed before and it certainly appears to be the case in this instance.
Agree. However, I'm convinced that Rezi didn't move the thread because he likes user X more than user Y, but rather moved it because he agreed to my opinion about moving it. He did a decision based on a certain matter, not on a personal favour. However, I'm interested whether he'll say something about that himself.
quote:
(b) Thread starters are the lifeblood of any forum.
If we only had thread starters here and no answerers, there wouldn't be any life blood at all.
For me, the point of all this (leaving alone silly comparisons with North Korea or whatever) is the question about what should be the deciding criteria for the location of a thread:
a) the way the thread has been started,
b) the way the discussion develops (this is my suggestion).
You can't even answer the question at all; instead you can't resist putting a 'put down' in your response.
According to your logic - based on the way a discussion develops instead of how it starts - rather suggests to me that there needs to be two new sites added to the board (bored).
(a) Petty squabbles,insults and put downs
(b) My opinion is fact; your facts are opinions
Perhaps you'd be happier there.
Last edited by Wott, 22/7/2010, 16:40
---
Wotty is your resident rock and metal guru, befitting an expert on petrology and metallography.
|
|
22/7/2010, 16:38
|
Link to this post
Send PM to Wott
|
Witchy Nightmare
Purple fan
Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 3372
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Some questions about moving threads
quote:
Wott wrote:
You can't even answer the question at all
I have answered the question - as far as it's me who has to answer it.
quote:
According to your logic - based on the way a discussion develops instead of how it starts - rather suggests to me that there needs to be two new sites added to the board (bored).
(a) Petty squabbles,insults and put downs
(b) My opinion is fact; your facts are opinions
Well, there's certainly some truth about that. Some threads might indeed be moved in such a section (or perhaps rather closed because of uselessness). However, if you have read question 2 in the opening entry, you might have recognized that I'm not going to turn more threads into off-topic arguments like it has happened (to my surprise) with the first edition of the "Child In Mime" thread.
Beside that, I don't know of which "insults" you're talking. I didn't call someone else a "troll" or fire off any other personal attacks, separating between "nicer people on here" and others or whatever.
|
|
22/7/2010, 16:57
|
Link to this post
Send Email to Witchy Nightmare
Send PM to Witchy Nightmare
|
Wott
Banned user
Registered: 07-2003
Posts: 2445
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Some questions about moving threads
quote:
Witchy Nightmare wrote:
quote:
Wott wrote:
You can't even answer the question at all
I have answered the question - as far as it's me who has to answer it.
quote:
I didn't call someone else a "troll" or fire off any other personal attacks, separating between "nicer people on here" and others or whatever.
No, you don't call someone a troll, you just troll instead like some of the other posters on here. Just like you did on my thread, ruining it completely.
My criticisms are perfectly apt and truthful.
You might also like to know that this whole discussion is a bit of a senseless smokescreen. The reason why all of this nonsense has blown up is because some people are bored with having nothing DP music-related to talk about or they feel forced to revisit topics that have been covered before and don't wish to. But if that is how they feel perhaps they would be better off not posting at all for a while, until there is something they feel is worth talking about, not vent their frustations on other posters who they feel are putting up threads in the wrong place.
---
Wotty is your resident rock and metal guru, befitting an expert on petrology and metallography.
|
|
22/7/2010, 18:01
|
Link to this post
Send PM to Wott
|
Witchy Nightmare
Purple fan
Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 3372
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Some questions about moving threads
quote:
Wott wrote:
No, you don't call someone a troll, you just troll instead like some of the other posters on here. Just like you did on my thread, ruining it completely.
Well, obviously we won't agree on what deserves being called "trolling". I made a suggestion which I consider being absolutely legitime, nothing more and nothing less. And of course I didn't "ruin" "your" thread alone.
However, I didn't post anything in the second edition of "your" thread, and I don't intend to do. I have stated my viewpoint on that matter, and what happens to the second edition is up to whomever.
quote:
My criticisms are perfectly apt and truthful.
Your opinion is a fact? New section b)?
quote:
You might also like to know that this whole discussion is a bit of a senseless smokescreen. The reason why all of this nonsense has blown up is because some people are bored with having nothing DP music-related to talk about or they feel forced to revisit topics that have been covered before and don't wish to. But if that is how they feel perhaps they would be better off not posting at all for a while, until there is something they feel is worth talking about, not vent their frustations on other posters who they feel are putting up threads in the wrong place.
All this hasn't got to do anything with my reason for doing my suggestion. No boredom, no frustration and all that. And as I already mentioned, I don't accuse you of putting up the thread in the wrong place.
|
|
22/7/2010, 19:43
|
Link to this post
Send Email to Witchy Nightmare
Send PM to Witchy Nightmare
|
Wott
Banned user
Registered: 07-2003
Posts: 2445
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Some questions about moving threads
quote:
Witchy Nightmare wrote:
quote:
Wott wrote:
No, you don't call someone a troll, you just troll instead like some of the other posters on here. Just like you did on my thread, ruining it completely.
Well, obviously we won't agree on what deserves being called "trolling". I made a suggestion which I consider being absolutely legitime, nothing more and nothing less. And of course I didn't "ruin" "your" thread alone.
However, I didn't post anything in the second edition of "your" thread, and I don't intend to do. I have stated my viewpoint on that matter, and what happens to the second edition is up to whomever.
quote:
My criticisms are perfectly apt and truthful.
Your opinion is a fact? New section b)?
quote:
You might also like to know that this whole discussion is a bit of a senseless smokescreen. The reason why all of this nonsense has blown up is because some people are bored with having nothing DP music-related to talk about or they feel forced to revisit topics that have been covered before and don't wish to. But if that is how they feel perhaps they would be better off not posting at all for a while, until there is something they feel is worth talking about, not vent their frustations on other posters who they feel are putting up threads in the wrong place.
All this hasn't got to do anything with my reason for doing my suggestion. No boredom, no frustration and all that. And as I already mentioned, I don't accuse you of putting up the thread in the wrong place.
You didn't post anything about the topic matter in the first edition of my thread either. Trolling is hijacking a thread by posting irrelevancies not to do with the topic under discussion. This can't be excused as anything else just because the post happens to be about the location of the thread.
Again, you're turning a perfectly valid comment into one of those daft opinion/fact points again.
No you didn't accuse me of putting my thread in the wrong place; you just made a point of saying (masquerading as suggesting) that it should be moved. That amounts to the same thing in my book - criticism of where it is currently located.
No matter how innocent you are trying to make out you are in all of this, it won't wash with me. You were just making mischief by ruining my thread probably prompted by others who you know have criticised my 'bunny' threads being in the wrong place on the Dio/Ronnie site.
Take a look at some of the other sites and see if all of those threads are entirely relevant to the site they're posted on. Also look at how some of the threads have progressed onto other topics/rows/insults. Once you've done that I'm sure that you will quickly conclude that we should all be spending far more time on here playing 'hunt the thread' instead of contributing to the discussion.
---
Wotty is your resident rock and metal guru, befitting an expert on petrology and metallography.
|
|
22/7/2010, 20:09
|
Link to this post
Send PM to Wott
|
Witchy Nightmare
Purple fan
Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 3372
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Some questions about moving threads
quote:
Wott wrote:
You didn't post anything about the topic matter in the first edition of my thread either.
The very first answer to the opening entry of "your" thread's first edition was:
quote:
Witchy Nightmare wrote:
quote:
Wott wrote:
Do you think Coverdale could handle Gillan songs that well? I don't.
I don't think so as well. Gillan's and Coverdale's singing styles are so different that it simply doesn't work. So I'm thankful about Gillan refusing to sing Coverdale songs - this is something I rate about Ian Gillan.
About the rumors of Coverdale miming, I cannot say anything, I don't follow his career.
Before you tell me to look whereever, open your eyes yourself.
|
|
22/7/2010, 20:13
|
Link to this post
Send Email to Witchy Nightmare
Send PM to Witchy Nightmare
|
Wott
Banned user
Registered: 07-2003
Posts: 2445
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Some questions about moving threads
quote:
Witchy Nightmare wrote:
quote:
Wott wrote:
You didn't post anything about the topic matter in the first edition of my thread either.
The very first answer to the opening entry of "your" thread's first edition was:
quote:
Witchy Nightmare wrote:
quote:
Wott wrote:
Do you think Coverdale could handle Gillan songs that well? I don't.
I don't think so as well. Gillan's and Coverdale's singing styles are so different that it simply doesn't work. So I'm thankful about Gillan refusing to sing Coverdale songs - this is something I rate about Ian Gillan.
About the rumors of Coverdale miming, I cannot say anything, I don't follow his career.
Before you tell me to look whereever, open your eyes yourself.
Well you can hardly blame me for this oversight. Your contribution will be forever be remembered as being about moving the thread, which was completely unnecessary as well as inappropriate.
---
Wotty is your resident rock and metal guru, befitting an expert on petrology and metallography.
|
|
22/7/2010, 20:51
|
Link to this post
Send PM to Wott
|
Reply
Page: 1 2 3
You are not logged in ( login)
|
