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Niko Vidgren Profile
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Registered: 09-2003
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Re: The New Pope, Joseph Ratzinger


quote:

Carramba wrote:
Ed, I remember reading something very similar to your information. My recollection is that he was temporarily blinded by poison gas, was recovering in a hospital when Germany surrendered, and got pretty pissed off on the news of the surrender, which prompted his idealogy.

Milan, I don't think Hitler was a deserter really. A fanatic, a racist, a nutcase, a sadist, but not a deserter emoticon



Yep, I've never heard of Hitler being a deserter either.

Quite the opposite, I've read some rumours of him being the Black Dog of Ypres. emoticon
20/4/2005, 17:29 Link to this post Send Email to Niko Vidgren   Send PM to Niko Vidgren
 
Rezi Profile
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Re: The New Pope, Joseph Ratzinger


I have never heard of this man before the speculations on the new pope started to float around.

The fact that he had been in Hitler Jugend, in some cases reported as being a 'scandalous' thing in his past, is an utterly irrelevant thing, just a typical examlpe of journalits' stupidity. It was both semi-obligatory (understatement)back in the day, as was equal to going to the boy scout, with the political 'education' being the difference.

However, his deserting from the army is mostly reported as a positive thing. I find that strange, but again, completely in line with the hypocratic crap that poisons the mankind. How can deserting be a positive thing?

Finally, I too have to say that presenting Hitler as a deserter is not truthful, no matter how much one would the man. And speaking of a 'man', I have never understood the common critique (a rather, childish outburst) every other play or movie has recieved for presenting Hitler as 'too human'. What was he then, a magical wizard from the Never-Never Land? I believe presenting him that way is denying that similar things are being done all over again, but hey, let's ignore that and focus on things that happened 60 years ago. That surely makes the world a better place.
21/4/2005, 10:15 Link to this post Send Email to Rezi   Send PM to Rezi
 
Milan Fahrnholz Profile
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Re: The New Pope, Joseph Ratzinger


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Rezi wrote:
I have never heard of this man before the speculations on the new pope started to float around.



See, he´s been quite famous as "the great inquisitor" in germany for more than 30 years.

Of course he hasn´t done anything yet as pope but it´s quite predictable that he as ultra-conservative presentor of the most reactionary things about the catholic church will do anything but move the church forward.

What POS has written above is completly true, I´d expand my knowledge on him based on that if I was you.

I know he might not be known outside of germany, but trust me, that man is NO good at all.
21/4/2005, 11:30 Link to this post  
 
Milan Fahrnholz Profile
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Re: The New Pope, Joseph Ratzinger


quote:

Rezi wrote:
I have never understood the common critique (a rather, childish outburst) every other play or movie has recieved for presenting Hitler as 'too human'. What was he then, a magical wizard from the Never-Never Land? I believe presenting him that way is denying that similar things are being done all over again, but hey, let's ignore that and focus on things that happened 60 years ago. That surely makes the world a better place.



Of course it´s dangerous to portray him as too positive, but that doesn´t mean one has to show him as an unhuman monster or something(although no one outside of germany doesn´t seem to have a problem with that) because he sure was nice to some people as well. For instance a well discussed scene about the first german film about that topic Downfall(Der Untergang) is where Hitler introduced his new secretary, and he´s just a friendly person to her. That´s just a fact because that´s the way she reported it herself, you can´t deny that. Then again this film of course has it´s problems about being too one-sidede about things, but I don´t want to go into that here. Point is that portraying Hitler is a dangerous thing as it has different influence on different people, but fact is that he had his nice and human sides as well of course, so portraying him as all evil unhuman monster(which he of course was, but he didn´t lead all of his life based on that) is complelty unhistoric.
21/4/2005, 11:36 Link to this post  
 
themanwiththeaxe Profile
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Re: The New Pope, Joseph Ratzinger


quote:

Rezi wrote:

The fact that he had been in Hitler Jugend, in some cases reported as being a 'scandalous' thing in his past, is an utterly irrelevant thing, just a typical examlpe of journalits' stupidity. It was both semi-obligatory (understatement)back in the day, as was equal to going to the boy scout, with the political 'education' being the difference.

 



Joining the scouts has never been even semi-obligatory in England. Please don't equate the scout movement with the Hitler Jugend. The worst thing about the scouts for me (speaking as a former member) was having to promise loyalty to the Queen. The last time I checked though, she was not rampaging through Europe terrorising and persecuting minorities and innocent people.

Simon
21/4/2005, 11:52 Link to this post Send Email to themanwiththeaxe   Send PM to themanwiththeaxe
 
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Re: The New Pope, Joseph Ratzinger


quote:

themanwiththeaxe wrote:

Joining the scouts has never been even semi-obligatory in England. Please don't equate the scout movement with the Hitler Jugend. The worst thing about the scouts for me (speaking as a former member) was having to promise loyalty to the Queen. The last time I checked though, she was not rampaging through Europe terrorising and persecuting minorities and innocent people.

Simon



Jesus, don't be naive, Simon. You know bloody well I wasn't implying that the boy scouts are equal to Hitler Jugend. I was only saying that the latter was a National Socialist version of the boy scouts. Soviet Union had their 'Pioneers' or whatever they were called. These totalitarian states combined the healthy hobby, with the trekking, camping etc. with political education and para-military training.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I too was in the scouts when I was a kid.


Last edited by Rezi, 21/4/2005, 12:47
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themanwiththeaxe Profile
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Re: The New Pope, Joseph Ratzinger


quote:

Rezi wrote:

Jesus, don't be naive, Simon. You know bloody well I wasn't implying that the boy scouts are equal to Hitler Jugend. I was only saying that the latter was a National Socialist version of the boy scouts. Soviet Union had their 'Pioneers' or whatever they were called. These totalitarian states combined the healthy hobby, with the trekking, camping etc. with political education and para-military training.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I too was in the scouts when I was a kid.



Okay, I didn't mean to accuse you of anything. I have spent many years studying German culture for work, and I am well aware of the way the Nazis distorted many ideas, including environmental policies, and interest in nature and so on. Having a youth movement was clearly another case in point.

Sometimes it's hard to see where people are coming from with their posts, no matter how many times one reads them. My mistake, I'm very sorry.

 emoticon

Last edited by themanwiththeaxe, 21/4/2005, 13:02
21/4/2005, 13:00 Link to this post Send Email to themanwiththeaxe   Send PM to themanwiththeaxe
 
Rezi Profile
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Re: The New Pope, Joseph Ratzinger


quote:

themanwiththeaxe wrote:

quote:

Rezi wrote:

Jesus, don't be naive, Simon. You know bloody well I wasn't implying that the boy scouts are equal to Hitler Jugend. I was only saying that the latter was a National Socialist version of the boy scouts. Soviet Union had their 'Pioneers' or whatever they were called. These totalitarian states combined the healthy hobby, with the trekking, camping etc. with political education and para-military training.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I too was in the scouts when I was a kid.



Okay, I didn't mean to accuse you of anything. I have spent many years studying German culture for work, and I am well aware of the way the Nazis distorted many ideas, including environmental policies, and interest in nature and so on. Having a youth movement was clearly another case in point.

Sometimes it's hard to see where people are coming from with their posts, no matter how many times one reads them. My mistake, I'm very sorry.

 emoticon



No offense taken, and I'm sorry too!

I agree, often it is very hard to know where people are coming from. emoticon

21/4/2005, 14:29 Link to this post Send Email to Rezi   Send PM to Rezi
 
MrEd45 Profile
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Re: The New Pope, Joseph Ratzinger


 Funny, isn't it? George Patton was nearly cashiered for making the comparison that belonging to the NAZI party was in some ways similar to being a Republican or a Democrat. emoticon
 Seeing as the NDSAP seems to have become a prominent 'digression' here, I have a quesion (which may be better suited to a topic/thread of it's own): How do most here view the NAZI movement in retrospective? By that I mean do people view it as more a political movement or as a sort of 'cult' that managed to sweep up millions into it's particular brand of madness? Or perhaps a combination of the two?

---
" Those who can - do. Those who can't do - teach. Those who can't do or teach - administrate."
- Anon.

" One that will not reason is a bigot. One that cannot reason is an ignoramus. One that dares not reason is a slave." - Anon
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PoshOldSlapper Profile
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Registered: 07-2004
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Re: The New Pope, Joseph Ratzinger


quote:

MrEd45 wrote:
 Seeing as the NDSAP seems to have become a prominent 'digression' here, I have a quesion (which may be better suited to a topic/thread of it's own): How do most here view the NAZI movement in retrospective? By that I mean do people view it as more a political movement or as a sort of 'cult' that managed to sweep up millions into it's particular brand of madness? Or perhaps a combination of the two?



Interesting and good question, MrEd, considering the thread under which it has actually been asked.

I have always been interested in the observation that most of the leaders of the nascent Nazi movement came from the southern, and traditionally Catholic, parts of Germany, and also Austria. Let's not forget Herr Schickelgrueber aka Adolf Hitler was Austrian NOT German.

There was always a very strong ritualistic/cultic side to Nazism that added to its appeal.

It has been suggested there were some very strong Germanic/Teutonic occult/magical elements that influenced the thinking of some of the early Nazis - the racial theories, the use of the runes on the SS's uniforms for example.

Most of this stuff - the mythological nationalism etc - was comfortably doing the rounds before the outbreak of WWI.

Therefore I see it as an extremist political cult that in 99.999% of cirucumstances would have just fallen by the wayside - nothing more than a bunch of 100 or so wierdos marching around in funny uniforms doing funny walks in a field somewhere outside Munich.

HOWEVER: What gave it currency and that 0.001% of a chance of taking off were the social, economic and political circumstances in post WWI Germany.

And a lot of that goes back to how the victorious allies decided at Versailles to extract reparations from Germany for starting WWI and allowed the country to go to complete rack and ruin - hell on a handcart - almost literally.

Millions reaped the whirlwind.

POS

Not to be renamed as PriestlyOldShagger - Yet emoticon

Last edited by PoshOldSlapper, 21/4/2005, 16:17
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