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highwayfrog Profile
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Re: Re:


quote:

ptr wrote:

As "Gillan fan" I simply must say that even 70+ years old IG in recent shape is much better singer for his own (Mk2) stuff than Romero. emoticon



No, sorry. That's not true and you know that yourself. If DP have to tune down PS for Gillan, he obviously can't sing it better than Ronnie. I also think that Ronnie sang Highway Star much better than Gillan (nowadays). Of course, Gillan's voice from MIJ for example can't be beaten. Gillan still is a good singer in the lower register, when he isn't coughing, but not in the high register.



Last edited by highwayfrog, 10/10/2016, 11:28
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Re: Memories in Rock / First Trailer / Black Night


Before I comment on the clip, I have to point this out because it's just head shaking really... -.-

I'm a big Blackmore fan and thats an understatement. The guy will always be my number 1 fave guitar player. I'm also very objective, critical (when earned and needed) and realistic but some of the things some RB fan(atics) say just makes me sad to be one. They give the rest of us a bad name like bad apples in other fandoms and I'm not pointing out anyone here, just saying in [sign in to see URL] I will focus on the topic but I had to say that because it's frustrating to see...

Like danielb said, the excuses have to stop.

Rainbow delivered different interpertations of these songs? I'm sorry, but most songs were either played very close to their studio versions, as they were in the past (Mistreated, short CTR versions in the 80s) or Blackmore's Night style as is the case in 16th Century and Black Night. Only difference is, BN did it better. Yes, Blackmore's Night did Rainbow and DP songs better than ''Rainbow''. And thats sad. This is one of the shortest and ''weakest'' Black Night performances of BN:



Give me this over this Rainbow version which is nothing new in it's interpertation any day of the week. Sure, 12 years ago, still no excuse...

Everyone wanting it sound like old days is another excuse. Please ppl, stop putting everyone in the same basket or projecting what you think is the cause someobody doesn't like a poor performance on them. I think most people want it to sound GOOD. FRESH. LIVELY. This actually sounded old and like danielb said TIRED. Did DP in 91 or 93 sound like in the old days? Did Rainbow in the 90s? NO! Did most ''everyone'' like it? HELL YES!

RNR isn't meant to be taken seriously? OH DEAR! RNR is MUSIC. MUSIC should be taken seriously to a degree, ESPECIALLY if you are going to charge people their hard earned money to see you. Otherwise play for free on the street. Oh, we all (who have read the interviews) know he was not taking this seriously. Thats just part of the problem. Whats scary is he said in the same breath he is taking BN much more seriously and what is that? A travelling circus mostly comprised of medieval party songs. So that deserves to be taken seriously, that which will fade to obscurity and never was or will be relevant or truly respected in the musical real, over some of the finest rock songs ever written and a 30 year old legacy RB in a way tried to p**s on by not taking it seriously? Really, is that what some are saying?

And someone who I personally know is not really a fan of rock music will now try to tell us what rock and roll is all about? Hey, go back to 1993 and tell Ritchie not to take it seriously and it's all just fun. You wont get some of the best live rock shows in the history and epic 5 minute solos that melt your face. You'll get c**p. Which seems preferable to some.

''16th Century Greensleeves - if they released that everyone would say great'' - no, they wouldn't. Not everyone. You know why? Because it's a rather abysmal performance. It's done ''BN style'' only the drummer is totally ruining it. As he does most of the things on these shows. And BN did 16th Century much, much better. I've heard at least two dozen version they were all far superior. True, again, it was all 12+ years ago, still. It was BN not a rock band which this was supposed to be and is - drummer aside.

''even 70+ years old IG in recent shape is much better singer for his own (Mk2) stuff than Romero'' - Oh dear *facepalm* This is factually incorrect. Ronnie Romero is one of the bright stars of these shows and he blew IG of the last 20 years (and I'm being generous), nevermind a 70 year old off the stage in most mkII material, especially Highway Star.

And I will also say that a 71 year old RB is much better at playing HIS OWN (MK2) SONGS than Morse ever will be (and I say this before I will explain why he is also a more skilled guitar player in another topic...)

''They don’t want to give away the good stuff straight away, it’s always lesser tracks used to promote these releases'' - This is also true and a good point as always Desperateheart! There WERE some good performances by RB on these shows. Some even bordering on pretty good. The band was never more than OK, held back severely by the drummer. But here is my ''concern'' or rather why I think even the non ''lesser'' material will not do much to improve the whole thing.

This performance sounds sterile. The mix is not the best. Sure it's all ''clear'' but it also doesn't sound lively. I was hoping they would produce this and mix it in a way to reallly bring out the best of the shows, but maybe thats just impossible and one thing this video does is point out even MORE just how much of a weak link Keith the drummer is with his laughable ''hello kitty'' drumkit and very very substandard drumming, not up to standard of even the studio recordings of these songs (Which he said in an interview months ago he is trying to be faitful to). He is by far the weakest link, dragging the whole band down, but then again it's RB's drumkit, he gave it to him and he told him to ''play it safe'' and ''just keep time'' because as someone mentioned in another topic, he is maybe afraid of a drummer pushing him to places he can't go anymore. (But even all that said, I've seen enough of Keith in BN, I checked out his recordings of him drumming and of his other project, he is not a rock drummer, not a very good drummer on the whole and not at all fit for this music...) Though I think he could, he just couldn't be bothered. Not enough practice or effort or will for it.

Also, they've taken the camera edits straight from the live edit they did for the two big screens. It's lazy but I guess it saves time and money and if it's one thing Ritchie is good at it's saving money at the expense of quality, though to give them their fair share, the director did a good job with the edits and the picture and camera work is up to 2016 standards. The rest? Not really. Sure, not the best performance of the gig (and imo the worst Black Night of the 3) but its kinda worrying because bootlegs make this sound better. Audience recordings make it sound more energetic and lively. This like I said does not bode well with for the rest of things.

Couple this with the fact that some of the best perfomances are left off this DVD (like Mistreated and Child In Time from Loreley, but Stargazer from second night is on there even though RB's solo [sign in to see URL] he was doing I don't know, worst Stargazer solo I ever heard and I heard dozens from 76/80), 3 songs on this mix are from inferior versions and bonus tracks are just plain crap, a sure no buy for me. Sadly.

Also, Ritchie looks drunk or sedate on this gig, lol. I noticed it in the audience recordings and you can see it here too. I still think he overall played a bit better in Loreley. He looked nervous there but is simply on autopilot here. There was more fire and energy in his performances in Loreley, even though the band did miss more cues and made more ''mistakes'', but still...
Also, RB's biggest issue in these first two gigs (by Birmingham this was much better already on the whole) were shorter solos were he was confined to a set number of bars and coping with all the rhythm parts he didn't play for a million years.
The songs where actually could stretch however he wanted and improvise, he delivered pretty much on all gigs, from solid to pretty damn good. Just a shame two great performances, among top 5 of these two gigs are not present on this DVD in favor of crap like LLRNR, worst version of Stargazer ever (even the band sounded asleep), etc...


Last edited by Jimmy Rustles, 10/10/2016, 12:02
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Re: Memories in Rock / First Trailer / Black Night


It boring I know but to repeat........
This entire 3 gig outing was a "pilot", a "tester", a "suck it and see" outing for Blackmore and co. Just like a TV show, it was the first episode, to see what happens. He had to spend just enough on it to make it look the part but not go over board in case it didn't quite work. As soon as the Birmingham gig sold out(doubtless much thanks to UK ticket agency touts mostly)it would be clear he'd get the attendance so then the question was what exactly would the fans accept musically?

Blackmore is a past master at reading his fans and knowing the absolute value of his brand. Therefore he knew he'd could get away with what he delivered at these gigs and the evidence has proved him absolutely right. His fans, all so desperate for his return to rock, would happily accept anything he chose to provide. They'd lap it up like nectar, even if it didn't actually taste quite so good really. That's precisely what he has very successfully done again here. Of course there are some who dare to say that it actually wasn't really all that good( which in many parts it wasn't actually very good at all )but as Blackmore knows only too well these doubters will be drowned out by the less discerning and less critical fans who would happily buy into any thing Blackmore wants them to.

For discerning fans, clearly it's great to see Blackmore doing his thing again, but that can be tempered by the facts that he's a 71yo man now. For the devotees, they can't be discerning where this is concerned.

Now armed with the facts about the audience take-up, DVD sales will also be a consideration in this equation, and the general level of excitement and hype that these gigs attracted, it seems likely Blackmore and his organisation can decide how many shows to do next year to maximise the attendance and therefore revenue from this.

HighwayFrog: I agree that in the 70's bands just appeared, did their thing, good or bad, and then vanished until next time. It seemed spontaneous because often it was and it lacked the planning or organisation of gigs today. Weeks after the event MelodyMaker or Sounds might have an article telling you what it was like, after the event. This years Rainbow outing was as far removed from a 70's event as it's possible to get. Despite looking less than polished on stage, this was behind the scenes, very well organised and managed event with a definite purpose in mind. I'd say for them, despite the nay-sayers, it was definitely Mission Accomplished
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And for the record, I'd much rather listen to this than current DP doing this. Why? Because RB (his tone sounds [sign in to see URL]? here? Maybe it's the playing, still I think ''hot rails'' and I put them in '' '' because they are not technically that only Seymour Duncans are hot rails but those who know what I mean know, were a mistake. Lace Sensors please! ) still has way more taste, class and unique style (and better phrasing and improvisational flow, even when on auto pilot) than Morse. Thats just a fact.
Because Ronnie Romero is much more pleasant to listen to than Gillan - Gillan literaly makes ''his own songs'' unlistenable, Ronnie makes it enjoyable. Also, Jens is easily on par with Don. It's just that Jens was asked to be more of a ''supporting role'' which is not the best decision. And finally, Bob is a great bass player. Different from Roger but can give him a run for his money.
Bit of positivity from me but also reality. For a band that didn't rehearse much and their ''leader'' didn't take this seriously, and they played together for the first two times here, they sure rival the band that has been together for decade+ and playing this and other songs even longer.
And Rainbows version of HS blows current DP's out of the water too. RB's weak triplets or not (still more fitting to the song than what Morse does, which lacks style and substance).

Last edited by Jimmy Rustles, 10/10/2016, 12:09
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Re: Memories in Rock / First Trailer / Black Night


quote:

Eirik Solum wrote:

quote:

Desperateheart wrote:

   And on that matter isn’t it great to see these songs sung by an amazing vocalist who can actually improve on the original recordings, witness for example Child in time!




Wow emoticon Romero improves Gillan and Dio original recordings?

Amusing. It is really interesting to see how different we hear the same minutes of music.




Guys,

it's actually ok to have different opinions....!

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Re: Memories in Rock / First Trailer / Black Night


quote:

Desperateheart wrote:

quote:

Eirik Solum wrote:

quote:

Desperateheart wrote:

   And on that matter isn’t it great to see these songs sung by an amazing vocalist who can actually improve on the original recordings, witness for example Child in time!




Wow emoticon Romero improves Gillan and Dio original recordings?

Amusing. It is really interesting to see how different we hear the same minutes of music.




Guys,

it's actually ok to have different opinions....!




Yes. Thats is exactly why I say it is interesting to see how different we hear it.
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Re: Re:


quote:

HighwayFrog wrote:

quote:

ptr wrote:

As "Gillan fan" I simply must say that even 70+ years old IG in recent shape is much better singer for his own (Mk2) stuff than Romero. emoticon



No, sorry. That's not true and you know that yourself. If DP have to tune down PS for Gillan, he obviously can't sing it better than Ronnie. I also think that Ronnie sang Highway Star much better than Gillan (nowadays). Of course, Gillan's voice from MIJ for example can't be beaten. Gillan still is a good singer in the lower register, when he isn't coughing, but not in the high register.




We have simply different attitude - it´s not about lowered key - Dio lowered tuning of his songs throughout his career and it´s actually one of reasons why his singing till the end of his life is seen as unmistakable - because he knew how to adapt the tune to his actual shape. IG now did the same with couple of Purple tunes and you simply crusified him for that... it´s simply normal thing that with age, voice is getting lower and darker - and I know I´ll be minority here, but I like the darker tone which Perfect Strangers got with this transposition to lower key (but I admit I have to get used to that). It´s all about Gillan´s tone of voice which is IMO (yes, my opinion!) superior to Romero´s IMO somewhat generic rock singer voice - nothing else.
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Re: Memories in Rock / First Trailer / Black Night


Your reaction was not a surprise

I think there aren't many people around that support your opinion
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Re: Memories in Rock / First Trailer / Black Night


If the tone is still there but the execution is horrific then the tone of voice (which IG also lost a bit because much was due to his capabilites - which while impressive, not quite ''top tier'' in the wider realm of rock singers) doesn't help much. Put it plainly, if RB has a great guitar tone which is still recognizably his and way better than, lets for a change say Satriani (too bad he didn't stay in DP, much better fit and better hard rock player and soloist than Morse, but he was also smart not to take the gig...), but his playing is a sloppy disaster, the Satriani performance of a song (whatever it would be) will be much more enjoyable to anyone with a set of unbiased properly working ears because it will not ruin the entire performance which is what IG regulary does.
But you know the argument is kinda weak and desperate when the only thing it can cling to is ''but, but tone of his voice, he still sounds like Gillan, the tone man, THE TONE!''. Oh yes, the tone. So lets ignore the almost total lack of vocal ability left and horrible delivery and execution with said tone.

Can't find the logic in that.

But whatever floats someones boat right? Wont comment anymore on that because it's kind of a waste of time but had to point out how silly that is.

And like dp344 said, very few will support and share that opinion.

Last edited by Jimmy Rustles, 10/10/2016, 13:06
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Re: Memories in Rock / First Trailer / Black Night


That's all very interesting and Jimmy Rustles certainly has got it right, or at least most of it.

The truth is that our expectations were too high. Let's be honest. July shows turned out a bit of a shock to most us in regards to Ritchie's playing. The clip Jimmy posted beats the 2016 recording to pieces. Sadly.

Never mind rhythm section or a Jens's supproting only part in the shows. It's all about Ritchie's playing and these certainly weren't his finest moments on stage.

Okay, okay, I know. They were underehearsed, maybe Ritchie needed more time to practice, maybe they were all scared of these shows, it's all understandable, but we're here talking about one of the finest, if not THE best rock and roll player of all time. And I guess that's the maine reason behind all our arguments.
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