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LakeGeneva Profile
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Re: A matter of time ...


Excellent post Friedhelm - spot on.

I too am finding the endless threads related to R&R HoF [sign in to see URL] years, this forum was taking the moral high ground regarding this joke of an institution and now we're all getting our knickers in a twist!

We don't need this bs institution to induct DP to validate our favourite band, just put on your favourite CDs or [sign in to see URL] Mark....

I don't personally give a !@#$ about their rules or nomination process but if the protagonists; the Gillan camp, the Blackmore camp, the current band or the management were going to kick up a stink of some sort, why the hell didn't they focus on the lack of respect shown to Nick Simper at worst or the genuine oversight of not including him at best?!

After all, Mk1 did more positive for the DP legacy than Mk3...........

24/2/2016, 7:23 Link to this post Send Email to LakeGeneva   Send PM to LakeGeneva
 
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Re: A matter of time ...


quote:

LakeGeneva wrote:

Excellent post Friedhelm - spot on.

I too am finding the endless threads related to R&R HoF [sign in to see URL] years, this forum was taking the moral high ground regarding this joke of an institution and now we're all getting our knickers in a twist!

We don't need this bs institution to induct DP to validate our favourite band, just put on your favourite CDs or [sign in to see URL] Mark....

I don't personally give a !@#$ about their rules or nomination process but if the protagonists; the Gillan camp, the Blackmore camp, the current band or the management were going to kick up a stink of some sort, why the hell didn't they focus on the lack of respect shown to Nick Simper at worst or the genuine oversight of not including him at best?!

After all, Mk1 did more positive for the DP legacy than Mk3...........





I agree about Nick Simper, but not so sure about MK1 doing more than MK3?both MKs released some great tracks but Mistreated ,Burn,Stormbringer ,SOF are hugely well known rock classics,and MK3 found Blackmore,Lord and Paice all at the peak of their awesome powers.
24/2/2016, 9:07 Link to this post Send Email to lightintheblack0   Send PM to lightintheblack0 Blog
 
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Re: A matter of time ...


quote:

ptr wrote:

quote:

RatBatBlu wrote:

quote:

purpelaar wrote:

Did Gillan ever apologize to everyone that he fucked up as a singer during many years due to over excessive boozing and smoking?




Wait, you mean that wasn't from a "cold"? emoticon




The issue is, that it´s not really true. Actually - he CHANGED his style of singing, because otherwise - he would not be able to SPEAK with his attitude of early 70s Purple singing in very short time! His natural voice actually stayed nearly the same - listen to Episode Six stuff and stuff from 2000s.... that characterstic voice is instantly recognizable! Actually in 70 - 73 period of Purple he sang OTHER way, than during the rest of career, he used much more aggresive style, which actually took the toll extremely fast - and you can hear that he´s vocally pretty worn and tired during 73. His real vocal peak came in late 70s and early 80s (which is natural, because that´s the time when development of voice is finished - at the age between 30 - 35 years). Sadly in 82 vocal nodules came in and struck him hard. Vocal nodules is common issue for singers (for example Freddie Mercury had them too) and they affect the voice a lot. Than some infection, issues..... the short rest helped. Then - Born Again - one of absolute vocal masterpieces of rock music history! And sadly Born Again tour, which took enormous toll. Very variable performances in 80s, lowest point of his singing career with TBRO Tour and then - he got distinctively better! In late 90s he sang better than during most of 80s! In 00s age started to take its toll too - his voice got lower, he lost couple of highest notes, but his unique tone remained the same. So I do not agree that IG "lost voice" - it´s actually absolute nonsense.




Post 70s Ian Gillan gave some wonderful vocal performances on albums but as a live singer he was a pale shadow of former 70s [sign in to see URL] the early 80s the glorious silver throated scream was replaced by a rather embarrassing squawk much of the time and his "normal" singing voice became more laboured,nasal and at times [sign in to see URL] still had a very strong voice in the 80s and did some great shows but also a lot of poor shows [sign in to see URL] the years since then he has steadily declined with age(obviously), fags and booze and lifestyle having taken their toll [sign in to see URL] his style you say?If you mean his voice declined far too early and he made changes to compensate then I [sign in to see URL] to Ian singing live in early Gillan years with Steve Byrd on guitar he is still very much the Ian Gillan of 70s DP,listen to his voice by the time Bernie Torme joined Gillan and he's nowhere close to that level.I have enjoyed every album Ian has made over the years and have seen him give many fine performances over that time too but to state that he didn't lose a lot of his voice in the live arena by early 80s is simply wrong he did, i was at many of these early 80s shows and he wasn't the singer he had been still very good though but no longer the greatest rock voice of them all that he had [sign in to see URL] for today sadly he's washed up and embarrassing .
24/2/2016, 9:33 Link to this post Send Email to lightintheblack0   Send PM to lightintheblack0 Blog
 
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Re: A matter of time ...


quote:

LakeGeneva wrote:

Excellent post Friedhelm - spot on.

I too am finding the endless threads related to R&R HoF [sign in to see URL] years, this forum was taking the moral high ground regarding this joke of an institution and now we're all getting our knickers in a twist!

We don't need this bs institution to induct DP to validate our favourite band, just put on your favourite CDs or [sign in to see URL] Mark....

I don't personally give a !@#$ about their rules or nomination process but if the protagonists; the Gillan camp, the Blackmore camp, the current band or the management were going to kick up a stink of some sort, why the hell didn't they focus on the lack of respect shown to Nick Simper at worst or the genuine oversight of not including him at best?!

After all, Mk1 did more positive for the DP legacy than Mk3...........




I never had much interest in RNRHOF but my interest has been piqued because of these developments, probably bringing unrealistic expecctations!

1. Ritchie's return to rock. I don't think this can be understated. Who could have imagined this a few years ago?
2. David's reconciliation with Ritchie.
3. David revisiting his past with The Purple Album.
3. Glenn appearing with Whitesnake at Saban Theatre in Beverly Hills. This is another big one, IMO. It proved that Glenn could appear on stage with David and not try to upstage him. It was a a great moment!
4. The deaths of so many music icons this year.
5. The end of the line being in sight for the living breathing Purple (realistically).

All of these conspire to make this a "perfect storm" for fans keen to see some sort of rapprochement and a final jam (Jon's dream).



---
Video clips from various gigs -> http://youtube.com/weissheim
24/2/2016, 9:45 Link to this post Send Email to Big J   Send PM to Big J
 
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Re: A matter of time ...


quote:

lightintheblack0 wrote:

quote:

ptr wrote:

quote:

RatBatBlu wrote:

quote:

purpelaar wrote:

Did Gillan ever apologize to everyone that he fucked up as a singer during many years due to over excessive boozing and smoking?




Wait, you mean that wasn't from a "cold"? emoticon




The issue is, that it´s not really true. Actually - he CHANGED his style of singing, because otherwise - he would not be able to SPEAK with his attitude of early 70s Purple singing in very short time! His natural voice actually stayed nearly the same - listen to Episode Six stuff and stuff from 2000s.... that characterstic voice is instantly recognizable! Actually in 70 - 73 period of Purple he sang OTHER way, than during the rest of career, he used much more aggresive style, which actually took the toll extremely fast - and you can hear that he´s vocally pretty worn and tired during 73. His real vocal peak came in late 70s and early 80s (which is natural, because that´s the time when development of voice is finished - at the age between 30 - 35 years). Sadly in 82 vocal nodules came in and struck him hard. Vocal nodules is common issue for singers (for example Freddie Mercury had them too) and they affect the voice a lot. Than some infection, issues..... the short rest helped. Then - Born Again - one of absolute vocal masterpieces of rock music history! And sadly Born Again tour, which took enormous toll. Very variable performances in 80s, lowest point of his singing career with TBRO Tour and then - he got distinctively better! In late 90s he sang better than during most of 80s! In 00s age started to take its toll too - his voice got lower, he lost couple of highest notes, but his unique tone remained the same. So I do not agree that IG "lost voice" - it´s actually absolute nonsense.




Post 70s Ian Gillan gave some wonderful vocal performances on albums but as a live singer he was a pale shadow of former 70s [sign in to see URL] the early 80s the glorious silver throated scream was replaced by a rather embarrassing squawk much of the time and his "normal" singing voice became more laboured,nasal and at times [sign in to see URL] still had a very strong voice in the 80s and did some great shows but also a lot of poor shows [sign in to see URL] the years since then he has steadily declined with age(obviously), fags and booze and lifestyle having taken their toll [sign in to see URL] his style you say?If you mean his voice declined far too early and he made changes to compensate then I [sign in to see URL] to Ian singing live in early Gillan years with Steve Byrd on guitar he is still very much the Ian Gillan of 70s DP,listen to his voice by the time Bernie Torme joined Gillan and he's nowhere close to that level.I have enjoyed every album Ian has made over the years and have seen him give many fine performances over that time too but to state that he didn't lose a lot of his voice in the live arena by early 80s is simply wrong he did, i was at many of these early 80s shows and he wasn't the singer he had been still very good though but no longer the greatest rock voice of them all that he had [sign in to see URL] for today sadly he's washed up and embarrassing .



That "silver throated legendary scream" would kill his voice - it was just impossible to continue in that way! That´s why he changed them! His voice in screams sounds pretty much close to Halford´s ones - so calling them as you did is really strange.

When I say that IG´s main voice actually remains the same - I have proof for that:

mid 1960s:
[url][sign in to see URL]

2013:
[url][sign in to see URL]
[url][sign in to see URL]

Just instantly recognizable! It´s just THE SAME voice with same character!

As I told you, the style IG used for Purple in early 70s was relatively brief exception of his normal style. At the end of 70s he just got back to his natural "pre-Purple" attitude of singing (with occasional exception like Abbey Of Thelema) and remained to that till today. I agree with you in one thing - IG is type of singer who has huge difference between "good night" with good performance and "bad night" and sometimes even I think to myself that it would be better to cancel the gig rather than do this (remember 2009 South American Tour), but I do understand that rescheduling these gigs is pretty difficult and sometimes impossible.
24/2/2016, 10:28 Link to this post Send Email to ptr   Send PM to ptr
 
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Re: A matter of time ...


I don't have much of an issue with IG getting older, we all do. But the way one ages is different, and my impression is that he did not look after himself very well for a number of years, and only more recently has begun to take care. Compare to Ted Neeley, who sang his part in the movie version of JCS: he still does perform it live, and there are videos aplenty of songs like Gethsemane from recent years on [sign in to see URL] to the crescendo at the end of that song and tell me if he's not been able to preserve the higher range in his voice - at age 70+. IG clearly has not been able to do that, and even 30 years ago that part was lost. I remember when he sang Nessun Dorma with [sign in to see URL] I would prefer to have forgotten it;-)
24/2/2016, 11:08 Link to this post Send Email to mtb7   Send PM to mtb7 Blog
 
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Re: A matter of time ...


quote:

lightintheblack0 wrote:

quote:

LakeGeneva wrote:

Excellent post Friedhelm - spot on.

I too am finding the endless threads related to R&R HoF [sign in to see URL] years, this forum was taking the moral high ground regarding this joke of an institution and now we're all getting our knickers in a twist!

We don't need this bs institution to induct DP to validate our favourite band, just put on your favourite CDs or [sign in to see URL] Mark....

I don't personally give a !@#$ about their rules or nomination process but if the protagonists; the Gillan camp, the Blackmore camp, the current band or the management were going to kick up a stink of some sort, why the hell didn't they focus on the lack of respect shown to Nick Simper at worst or the genuine oversight of not including him at best?!

After all, Mk1 did more positive for the DP legacy than Mk3...........





I agree about Nick Simper, but not so sure about MK1 doing more than MK3?both MKs released some great tracks but Mistreated ,Burn,Stormbringer ,SOF are hugely well known rock classics,and MK3 found Blackmore,Lord and Paice all at the peak of their awesome powers.




MK 1 has a lot of classics as well.
Just Mandrake Root and Wring Thta neck alone formed the basis for MK2 and their great live renditions of those tracks. And to me HUSH was never better performed than on Powerhouse/The Concerto 1969.

I really love the third album. Chasing Shadows, April, Blind, Painter, The Bird has flown(also given a great rendtion by MK 2)and so on.

The Book of talisyn had Anthem(what a beauty of a song that is), wring that neck,and more.

The first album has many great songs of both DP themselves and a majestic cover of Hey Joe.

MK 1 was the beginning and already showed the way to their MK 2 direction.

Rod Evans, a great moody melancholy singer.

I really dissapprove how he has been punished in the past.

Nick Simper, what can I say?
He did not do anything wrong.





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Re: A matter of time ...


quote:

mtb7 wrote:

I don't have much of an issue with IG getting older, we all do. But the way one ages is different, and my impression is that he did not look after himself very well for a number of years, and only more recently has begun to take care. Compare to Ted Neeley, who sang his part in the movie version of JCS: he still does perform it live, and there are videos aplenty of songs like Gethsemane from recent years on [sign in to see URL] to the crescendo at the end of that song and tell me if he's not been able to preserve the higher range in his voice - at age 70+. IG clearly has not been able to do that, and even 30 years ago that part was lost. I remember when he sang Nessun Dorma with [sign in to see URL] I would prefer to have forgotten it;-)




In defense of Gillan here :
Ted Neeley did not tour/work as hard as Gillan did over the years?

On the other hand, Glenn Hughes has been putting out great albums since the early 1990's and live he was excellent.

I think the combination of doing not so many shows like Ian has /did and better care of his health did the trick.
I was amazed that in his drugsyears he still maneged to pull out grand stuff on 7th Star, Phenomena and face the truth with Norum.
Or did he already kick the habits of before at that point?

I always hated Glenns overexcessive ugly screaming.
But in general he is able to do anything, sing vary different styles.


I can imagine that Gillan might have stepped over his natutal boundaries during the heydays of DP in the early 70's and that he was forced to take it a step back.
But his screams got terribly ugly and he did them in overdulgent fashion.
I never was one of those people that insisted he should deliver screams in later days.
CIT was emberassing from the start of the reunion.

But still, he might have manged those screams better with better health, stopping boozing and smoking.

Which he did in the early 90's .
Toolbox had very good NOT UGLY screams.
I unfortunately missed out on seeing him live on that tour.
But based on what I saw on DVD he manged quite well live , even those screams.

So it was possible!


To my surprise and dissappoitment he did lose that again on the TBRO album and tour.
I agree he did so much better than in the 80's (With DP)but still........

After that RB left he years he sung quite strong but his screams failed mostly.

The 2000s were a decline again.

I saw him in Rotterdam, from which the CD is made, in 2000 and loved his strong controlled delivery.
As long he did not do the screams, that was.
But hearing Fools he did way back was awesome and next to the POH and No One came rendtions a true delight.
Was I happy during those years?
As long SM did not play his annoying sound and repetetive solos it was quite good actually.
SM delivering a very heavy rhytymriff was great, actually.

But his solos were always a depressive moment for me.





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Re: A matter of time ...


We just wants to see Mark 2 with Don Airey or Mark 3 with a guest keyboard player for the very last time, for the final time.

That's all.

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Re: A matter of time ...


quote:

Friedhelm wrote:

Which lies did Gillan tell about Ritchie? Facts please, no interpretations.


He clamied that the 1993 shows with Ritchie were in half-empty halls (a quote is on English Wikipedia's article about DP) which is nonsense, see snakehead's entry. I don't know whether this actually is a lie because as you know, a lie means that someone tells something wrong knowing that it's wrong, but it's pure nonsense anyway (even ptr admitted that), and he keeps repeating that in countless interviews.
Perhaps he confuses it with the 1994 shows with Satriani - when I saw them in Dortmund, the hall was about half full.


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